Public Consultation
Proposed Statutory Fund to support the needs of Survivors of Residential Institutional Child Abuse.
The Government has announced its proposal to use €110m of the offers of contributions from religious Congregations to establish and operate a Statutory Fund to support the needs of survivors of residential institutional child abuse and for other education and welfare purposes.
The Statutory Fund is being proposed to support the continuing education, health and welfare needs faced by survivors. The Fund will not provide cash compensation for survivors and will be separate and distinct from the compensation scheme operated by the independent Residential Institutions Redress Board, which provides fair and reasonable awards to victims of institutional childhood abuse.
As part of the consultation process, the Department of Education and Skills is meeting with groups representing survivors of institutional child abuse and the religious Congregations. However, many survivors are not affiliated to groups and may wish to contribute independently to the process. As the Department wishes to consult as widely as possible it invites the views of all interested parties.
Submissions should identify, as far as possible, the specific needs facing survivors and suggest how the Fund should operate to assist in meeting these needs.
Written submissions can be emailed to StatutoryFund@education.gov.ie or posted to Statutory Fund Consultation, Department of Education and Skills, Block 2, Marlborough Street, Dublin 1.
A Freefone Service is available to receive comments from Monday to Friday between 10am and 1pm by phoning 1800 938 140 (Republic of Ireland) or 0800 0148912 (NI & UK) (this service is being operated by Barnardos on behalf of the Department of Education and Skills).
The closing date for the receipt of submissions is Friday 27th August, 2010.
Please note that all comments, observations and submissions will be subject to the Freedom of Information Acts 1997-2003. Consequently when submitting material, a person should identify any information which they do not wish to have released together with an accompanying explanation.
Inhuman child abuse in Industrial Reformatorys was cloud’ed in a Culture of Secrecy to cover the brutal treatment that children were suffering ,The Government are still coverning it up still wrapped in a cloud of secrecy.
Paddy parhaps they forgot us.it was a difficult task trying to trace siblings.we have given up now after trying for many years ,we really did try hard.
Paddy’How do we Survivors know when a Politician is Lying to us ,>Their Lips Move
The subject of tracing relatives and friend is a deeply important and emotional one!
There is a lot that we can do to help each other; and the Internet is a powerful tool?
ITV This Morning are looking for a good story about tracing relatives; nad are offering to do their best to find them for you?
You and contact them on Twitter Facebook and at thismorning@itv.com
I would use all 3 if you want to get their attention!
I f you are on Facebook there are many Irish related Group and Causes, Join them and ask there?
http://irishabroad.com/Home/Default.aspx Has 240,000 members
irishcentral@nl.clickability.com is a long shot?
http://lostschoolfriends.ie/ is also worth a try?
Join http://shameofireland.co.uk/ I will set up an Action Group there and Invite members to join; where we can help each other?
You don’t have to do this on your own!
I hope this help?
Your Friend Rob
PS the Shame ot Ireland is for Survivors their Families and Friends, there are members in Canada, Austrailia, North America as the membership grows we have more chance of finding lost loved ones?
The EDUCATION FINANCE BOARD, set up in 2006 is currently active and has been since then. It is for Survivor’s of Ireland’s various Institute’s,Convent’s etc, and started of with a fund of just over £12 million pound’s.
If the proposed plan by the Government to set up the Statutory Trust Fund, goes ahead, then are we to assume we will have two Education Finance scheme’s in operation at the same time?
This possibility is another reason why the Trust Fund is not needed,and not required by the majority of Survivor’s.
The Religious donated the £12million for the EFB in 2006, and now the further contribution’s of Land, Property, and Cash,
are for the further Redress of the Victim’s /Survivor’s, and should be shared out between them in the only fair way that they have indicated , directly to them, and not by the proposed Trust Fund.
The majority are in their elder year’s now, and for them the ideal solution would be to have their fair share ,as intended by the Religious, which would enable each and every one of them to look after themselve’s and their Family’s, get on with their live’s,
and have some sort of closure, instead of being further Abused .
Throughout their live’s, Survivor’s have raised their Family’s, and financed their Education, also their own, so it is a bit late now to be told that all the Contribution’s are to be put in a Trust Fund. Those Contribution’s are the Religious way of saying Sorry, to compensate us for the damage they have admitted to, so it’s only right that Survivor’s are Redressd now, in a fair manner, and also make up for the way they were badly treated by the Redress board, whose award’s were neither just or fair.
Jimmy.
God bless you Jimmy for your clear message! I believe that the Education Fund is to be absorbed into the Statutory Fund which represents a net gain of 60 million Euros; indirectly you have hit the nail on the head! Who gets the funds when the original Survivors have gone? If they want to give it to the Chilren and Grandchilren of Survivor as a legacy, LET THE SURVIVORS DECIDE! LET IT BE THEIR GIFT TO THEIR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN? Why let administration eat into this!!!
This matter requires investigating and clarifying.
I would also like the abuse we suffered to be written into the History Books of ireland. In this way hopefully, no one body ie The Religious, will not be allowed total autonomy.
Kathleen O’Malley.
Hi Rob, ta for your comment, but only giving my opinion. Regarding the subject of the Redress Board, and their so called “fair” award’s, it is very apparent that most of those who attended the Redress Board do not agree that it was in anyway fair, and many would say that the entire experience was on a par with further Abuse in their sad elder live’s. Many left very dissapointed and traumatised, with the treatment, the weird question’s asked by Judge Ryan, and the pityful award’s made, which were not in any way on a par of what they said in their Handbook , that award’s would be the same as the High Court’s .The Gagging order’s were clearly further Abuse, and in breach of our Human Right’s.
Ever since i attended the Redress Board, i am haunted by one particular question Judge Ryan asked me, ” WHY DO YOU THINK YOU WERE PICKED ON SO OFTEN BY THE PEOPLE YOU SAY SEXUALLY ABUSED YOU?”
I answered that i was 12 year old, small in size for my age, and may have appealed to the Predator’s because i was young, angelic looking and vunerible.Also terrified and very frightened and very far from my Mother, also that i had been described by an older boy that i was fresh meat, not being there long, and he advised me to watch out for certain Brother’s, and this indeed proved correct.
I indicated to the Judge that i had with me a photo of myself , that it was outside the building in my Brother’s car, and the Judge requested to see it, and i got my Brother to go outside and get it, which he did. When the Judge looked at it, he remarked, “oh ,i see what you mean!”
My haunting question is , just exactly what did he see? and what did he mean , with that comment?. To this day the mind boggle’s!
That was the Highlight of my experience at the Redress Board, and i would be very interested to hear if any other Folk who attended, had simular experience’s. And also hear their view’s. ps, The photo was taken a few month’s before my interment , i was 11/12 at the time.
Keep Strong,
Jimmy.
Further to my last posting , i would like to state that i made a a mistake on the Judge’s name, it was not Ryan , but o leary.
I apoligise if my mistake caused any upset, it was not my intention, i frequently make little error’s in my old age. for example, last week i advised a friend to seek the help of a terrorist, but meant a therapist!
Jimmy.
Jimmy.
I believe this man may have made what he may call a throw away remark. To the Survivor who has suffered heinious abuse it is appauling. One wonders what this man was doing in such a position.
As you said Jimmy “the mind boggles”. Personally I would not trust such a person anywhere near any child of mine.
Therein lies a total lack of RESPECT for the Victim.
He and others like him are a disgrace to Human Society.
Sadly Ireland nominated him to sit on the Redress Board.
What a pity they did not require a C.R.B.Check.
I am perplexed and astonished that so many (Criminals) men of the cloth are allowed to continue preaching Morality to the millions of Catholics around the world.
Having recently viewed “Song of a Raggy boy” both monsters were removed from the said Industrial School and became Missionaries. Murder was committed, the Irish Police were not called nor was there an investigation. Ireland you have so much to answer for. Shame on you.
Kathleen O’Malley.
the redress was a difercult experience. The lawyer did not act as if he was on my side ‘ after all the papers damanded over the years i waited . Asking for medical files was beeing thaught a bit strange and all that so that thay could make me feel responsable for my emotional scars . i was just as frightened as the first time i was taken to court at the age of six. we should not have to protect people like that . thay snobed us lawyers and all .
Kathleen O’ I agree with you what happened to us children in those Brutal baby and child prisons Must be written into Irish History all documents relating to Industrial schools and the children detained in them must be preserved as part Ireland’s Brutal History which distroyed so many lives .Pauline you were in St joseph’s dormatory so you would have been only 4 years old ,I remember, my heart breaks just remembering the suffering all us children detained in those damp Dark colourless Souless,brutal Cruel Hell on Earth Holes.We were only little children . in trying to get justice we all have been AGAIN ,>Abused,Used,Bullied,Silenced,even Threatened, some bullied out of Ireland .many if still alive live lonley isloated lives and many are in Poor or really bad health ,the government know this thats why they wan’t the statuary trust fund in their own coffers they hope we all die leaving them with total control of Survivors rightful compansation,Europian Court of Human Rights ,I have spoken to a Lawyer about this he has read the posts ,and has friends in television.and read the Ryan report ect , Buckley is a total CONTROL FREAK and a bully also.
Without doubt, the experience of the Redress Board was further Abuse for all who attended, and the “Weighting” system they had in place was anything but Fair, and the entire set up was for my part ,very upsetting, i felt i was not spoken to ,but down to, i felt intimidated, humiliated and very distressed with the proceeding’s, like as if i was on trial, the level of question’s which would have made Hitler proud.
I received the maximum point’s for Sexual and Physical Abuse, yet very few for the other’s, like loss of opportunity, or physcho
/ social , loss of education, physical/ mental damage, and the knock on effect’s that went with it all, through life.
It is my overall feeling that i was being penalised for surviving , for standing there in front of them , smartly dressed, clean and polite. What bit of education i have ,i taught myself, but the judge remarked that i seemed to have come through life pretty well and made out ok, so they saved on the point’s there!
On reflection, i beleive now, that had i appeared in front of them, dressed scruffy, unshaven, a fag and a can of beer in my hand’s, and swearing blindly, plus swinging on the light’s, i would have been awarded many more point’s.
To say their treatment of all who attended the Redress Board was fair and just, and conducted on a par with the High Court’s, was anything but the truth! It was further Abuse, as their insistance on gagging order’s, supported! They knew damn well they were treating and shortchanging us badly.
The Legal People are millionaire’s now, on the back’s of our cruel Childhood’s, and thank’s to the RIRB, SO IT WOULD BE NICE IF SOME OF THEM OFFERED TO TAKE UP OUR CASE TO THE EUROPEAN COURT AGAINST THE IRISH STATE ON THE ISSUE OF THE STATUTORY FUND, AS A GESTURE OF GOOD WILL, AND FREE OF CHARGE!
JIMMY.
There is a NEW petition at
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/267/justice-for-irish-survivors-of-child-abuse/
I Hope you will give this your support it is growing faster than the one I created!
I have applied to have the closing date extended for the petition at petitions.ie and will let you know if it is granted
Your Friend Rob
A MEETING WAS HELD ON SATURDAY LAST IN ( MAHON COMMUNITY CENTRE ) HELD BR MR, OLIVER BURKE, AND MR CHRISTIE HEAPHY.
ABOUT 60, OR MORE SURVIVORS ATTENDED, AND WAS A VERY VERY SUCCESSFUL MEETING, THE MAIN TOPIC OF CONVERSATION WAS THE REPARATION MONIES BEING OFFERED BY THE RELIGIOUS ORDERS.
THE MEETING WAS A HUGE SUCCESS, AND LOTS OF QUESTIONS WERE ASKED FROM THE FLOOR, AND ANSWERS GIVEN TO ALL.
THE NEW GROUP IS CALLED, ( MUNSTER SURVIVORS SUPPORT SERVICES ) AND ALREADY HAS QUITE A FOLLOWING.
I WOULD URGE ANYONE WHO HAS HAD THEIR FILL OF THE PROMISES FROM THE GROUP ( RIGHT OF PLACE, LOWER GLANMIRE ROAD ) TO JOIN THIS GROUP, AND MORE SO TO ( DEMAND FROM MR C BARRY, AND HIS GROUP THAT HAS DONE ABSOLUTELY DONE NOTHING FOR THE SURVIVORS WHO HAS CONTACTED HIS OFFICES, TO HAVE THEIR NAMES, AND ANY OTHER INFORMATION THAT ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) HOLDS ON THEIR DATABANK, TO HAVE IT REMOVED AT ONCE, AND ALSO TO ASK MR BARRY TO REPLY IN WRITING TO THEM PERSONALLY TO THEM, CONFIRMING THAT THEIR DEMANDS ARE ADHERED TO.
RIGHT OF PLACE HAVE FOR YEARS, USED YOUR NAMES, AND DETAILS TO OBTAIN FUNDING FROM THE HSE TO KEEP MR BARRY AND CO IN BUSINESS, SO BY YOU ( DEMANDING ) TO HAVE YOUR INFORMATION REMOVED FROM HIS DATABASE, SO THEY WILL NOT BE ASKING FOR FUNDING FROM THE HSE, IN YOUR NAME.
WITHOUT THIS FUNDING FROM THE HSE, MR NOEL C BARRY HAS NO MANDATE, AND NO DATABASE, AND THEREFORE NOT ACTING ON OUR BEHALF.
I ALREADY HAVE WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS IN RIGHT OF PLACE, AS I FOUND THAT THEY WERE DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR THE MAJORITY OF SURVIVORS, AND I AM CERTAIN THAT AFTER ALL THE CONTROVERSY OVER THE PAST FEW MONTHS IN THE MEDIA ABOUT THE ALLEGED MISINTERPRETATION OF FUNDS, AND DONATIONS FROM THE RELIGIOUS ORDERS, THAT MR BARRY, AND HIS GROUP, HAVE QUITE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT HE NEEDS TO ANSWER.
WE ARE SICK TO THE TEETH OF HEARING FROM MR BARRY, ( LEAVE IT WITH ME ) OR ( I WILL PUT THAT TO THE BOARD ) AND THAT IS THE END OF IT. WE SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH OF THAT BULL, AND SOME QUESTIONS NEED ANSWERING.
THIS NEW GROUP HAS A LOT TO OFFER THE SURVIVORS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN LISTENED TO IN THE PAST, AND A BETTER HOPE FOR THE FUTURE.
ALL MR BARRY AND HIS COLLEGUES WILL OFFER THE SURVIVOR, IS A GUARANTEED TRUST FUND, WHICH I WILL BET, HE WILL WANT TO BE IN CONTROL OF. HE IS NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE SURVIVOR, IN MY OPINION, BUT HIMSELF, AND TO KEEP ON MAKING A HEALTHY LIVING ON THE MISERY OF OTHERS.
IT’S HIGH TIME NOW, THAT ALL SURVIVOR GROUPS AMALGAMATE TOGETHER, AND SPEAK WITH ( 1 ) ONE VOICE. WITHOUT THIS, THE GOVERNMENT WILL BE LAUGHING AT US ALL, WHICH THEY ARE DOING AT PRESENT. ( DIVIDED ) THAT IS THE PLOY OF THE GOVERNMENT. WE MUST SHOW THEM THAT WE SURVIVORS CAN BE, AND WILL BE, A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH, AND WE WILL FIGHT THEM EVERY INCH OF THE WAY WHEN THEY SAY TO US, ( WE ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY TO BUILD A CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL. WE WILL NOT BE DICTATED TO YET AGAIN, AS WE WERE AS CHILDREN.
I URGE EVERYONE READING THIS ARTICLE, TO CONTACT THE NUMBERS LISTED BELOW, AND ONCE AND FOR ALL TO BE TOTALLY RID OF THIS GROUP CALLED, ( RIGHT OF PLACE ) AND THEIR DICTATOR, WHO HAS DONE NOTHING, AND WILL DO NOTHING FOR THE SURVIVOR, EXCEPT TO TELL THE GOVERNMENT ( SUPPOSEDLY ON OUR BEHALF ) THAT WE WANT A TRUST FUND, WHEN WE DO NOT.
MR BARRY IS NOT CONVEYING OUR MESSAGE, AND HIS LEGAL ADVISOR, MR FRANCIS TREANOR LIKEWISE. THEY BOTH WENT TO THE GOVERNMENT AND ASKED FOR A TRUST FUND IN OUR NAME. LETS BE RID OF THESE PARASITES NOW.
THE NEW GROUP IS KNOWN AS, ( MUNSTER SURVIVORS SUPPORT GROUP ) TELEPHONE ( 087-0516070 ) THEY WILL ALSO HAVE A WEB-SITE UP AND RUNNING HOPEFULLY IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS OR SO. THE WEB- ADDRESS IS, ( http://www.munstersurvivorssupportservices.org ) AND THE EMAIL ADDRESS, ( munstersurvivors@gmail.com )
@ Mossie,
There is already a website set up for Survivors; where they can Vote on issues that affect them?
You are right about being disillusioned with so called “Representatives” and speaking with “One Voice”.
I agree that Mr Barry “et all” need to be sent a clear message!
http://shameofireland.co.uk/
Stands for Democracy Transparency and Inclusion for All!
You and the others at the meeting, are more than welcome?
We will be voting to accept the “Aims and Objectives” of The Shame Of Ireland, Soon!
You are all welcome to contribute?
Once they are adopted WE will be voting for “Spokes People” to Speak for Survivors with the Mandate of a VOTE on the Topic in Mind (whatever that may be?)!
We currently have 2 Nominations for “Spokes People” if you join you can Nominate others?
This can then be put to the VOTE!
Representation without Leadership??
Come and Join US?
“It is not about Personalities it is about the Task at Hand”
Your
Friend
Rob
PS, The Petition at http://www.petitions.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=238&Itemid=9&latestnews=latest
Has been extended until the end of the year as the Redress Unit could not tell me when the Statutory Fund become Law.
PPS, Thank Christie for Signing the Petition! His Support is appreciatd!
@ Jimmy and Mary,
There is a Discusion Topic on the Shame of Ireland website about Human Rights I shall be expanding on it and adding Legaal Representation. i have been knocked back by Geoffrey Robbertson QC; who recently published a book on the Popes Direct Culpability in all this!
I am still waiting to hear from Mr Scocer who is representing the Man in England who has permission to sue for 5 Million Pounds; This will be a landmark case and will show the Redress Board for what it was” The Protector of the Public Purse” and a damage limitation excersise for CORI! Surely Michael Woods is Guaranteed a place in Heaven with so many “Good Catholics” Praying for his “Immortal Soul”
Your
Friend
Rob
THE LAST THING WE NEED AS SURVIVOR’S IS ANOTHER GROUP, GIVEN ALL THE HIGHLIGHTED REPORT’S OVER THE YEAR’S REGARDING THE VARIOUS OTHER GROUP’S , THAT CLEARLY HAD THEIR OWN AGENDA’S!
IT IS LIKE AN ADVERT FOR A NEW WASHING POWDER, BUT NO WHITER THE PREVIOUS LOT!
THIS SITE ,AND “SHAME OF IRELAND” HAS ENABLED SURVIVOR’S TO WRITE, EMAIL AND VOTE THEIR CONCERN’S REGARDING THE PROPOSED TRUST FUND, THEY BOTH KEEP SURVIVOR’S UP TO DATE AND INFORMED, AND ASSIST IN EVERY WAY THEY CAN , THAT WILL DO FOR ME, ESPECIALLY AS IT REACH’S OUT TO SURVIVOR’S ALL OVER THE WORLD,
AND IS RUN BY A MAN WHO COMMAND’S RESPECT FROM THE VERY GOVERNMENT WE HAVE ISSUE’S WITH.
JIMMY
In reply to Mossies request for new Members, could you answer a couple of questions for me.
1. Where did you get the names / addresses of the Survivors who attended?,
2. How many Survivors were notified of the gathering?
3. What questions to answers were you qualified to answer.
4. Have you a Mandate to represent Survivors Universally.
YOU APPEAR TO BE DOING EXACTLY WHAT PREVIOUS GROUP LEADERS HAVE DONE IN THE PAST, ARGUE AGAINST EACH OTHER. THIS DOES NOT GIVE CONFIDENCE TO MEMBERS. SURELY A UNITED MEMBERSHIP WOULD BE MORE BENIFICAL TO ALL INVOLVED.
PERSONALLY I AM VERY CONTENT WITH PADDY’S WEB PAGE, HE HAS BEEN CONSISTENT AND VERY FAIR IN ALLOWING EACH AND EVERY ONE A VOICE.
SHAME OF IRELAND HAD BEEN SET UP BY ROBERT WHO HAS EXCELLED HIMSELF AND DONE JUSTICE TO SURVIVORS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. PERHAPS YOUR ENERGIES WOULD BE BEST SERVED BY GETTING RID OF GROUPS AND UNITING AS ONE. STRENGTH IN NUMBERS. “UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL.
KATHLEEN o’MALLEY.
HI ROB, AND THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY. YES I KNOW ABOUT YOUE PETITION SITE, AND I HAVE ALREADY SIGNED UP TO IT SOME TIME AGO, IT SEEMS TO BE DOING QUITE WELL TG.
MR BARRY AND HIS HENCHMEN AS YOU WILL BE AWARE, HAVE ALREADY SIGNED ALL SURVIVORS UP TO A TRUST FUND WHICH NO ONE WANTS.
BARRY OF COURSE SPEAKS ONLY FOR HIMSELF, BUT THINKD HE HAS A GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF ALL SURVIVORS.
HOWEVER, HE HAS ONLY ABOUT ANOTHER 8 WEEKS OR SO LEFT BEFORE HE HAS TO GO, AND NOT BEFORE TIME I MAY ADD.
WE ARE TRYING TO UNITE ALL THE GROUPS AT PRESENT, AND IT SEEMS TO BE GOING QUITE WELL. WE ALL NEED TO BE SINGING FROM THE ONE HYMN SHEET, WHEN WE ARE LOOKING TO HAVE THAT ( TRUST FUND ) OVERTURNED.
THE SOONER THAT MAN, ( BARRY ) IS GONE, THE BETTER FOR US ALL, AS HE HAS DONE IRREPARABLE DAMAGE TO SURVIVORS, BY ACTING AS IF HE HAS THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO SPEAK FOR US ALL, WITHOUT BEING GIVEN A MANDATE..
I REALLY HOPE EVERYTHING TURNS OUT FOR THE BEST FOR THE SURVIVORS. IT’S TIME WE GOT RID OF THE DICTATOR, AND HIS ENTOURAGE NOW, ONCE AND FOR ALL.
GOOD LUCK IN YOUR WORK ROB, AND KEEP PLOUGHING FORWARD, WE WILL NOT BE BEATEN BY THESE PARASITES WHO PURPORT TO REPRESENT US SURVIVORS. IF I CAN BE OF ANY HELP IN THE NEAR FUTURE, DONT HESITATE TO ASK.
KIND REGARDS. MOSSIE.
HELLO KATHLEEN,
IN RESPONSE TO YOUR LETTER.
(1) I DID NOT GET ANY NAMES OF SURVIVORS FROM ANYWHERE. THE PERSON HOLDING THE MEETING WAS MR OLIVER BURKE, WHO INITIALLY WORKED IN RIGHT OF PLACE, AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED, HE WAS FAMILIAR WITH, AND ALREADY KNEW THEM.
(2) AS FAR AS I AM AWARE, MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED, HAD BEEN INVITED, IT WAS BY INVITATION, AND ANYONE WHO RECEIVED AN INVITATION FROM MR BURKE, ATTENDED, AND OTHER SURVIVORS WHO WERE FRIENDS OF THOSE INVITED ALSO CAME ALONG, THAT WAS NOT A PROBLEM.
(3) I DID NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, AS I AM NOT QUALIFIED TO DO SO. WHAT I SAID WAS MR OLIVER BURKE, WHO CHAIRED THE MEETING, ALONG WITH MR CHRISTIE HEAPHY ANSWERED ANY QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED OF THEM.
(4) I DO NOT HAVE A MANDATE TO REPRESENT ANYONE KATHLEEN, NOR HAVE I CLAIMED TO HAVE. PLEASE READ MY MESSAGE AGAIN, AS I THINK YOU MAY BE SLIGHTLY CONFUSED.
MR OLIVER BURKE’S GROUP, INTENDS TO FORM A GROUP, TO COUNTERACT MR NOEL C BARRY’S GROUP, WHOSE INTENTION IS TO HAVE A TRUST FUND PUT IN PLACE.
WE ARE NOT AFTER THE SAME THING, AS 99 PER CENT OF SURVIVORS, WANT THE MONIES THAT WILL BE DONATED FROM THE RELIGIOUS ORDERS FOR REPARATION, TO BE GIVEN TO THE SURVIVORS, AND NOT THE GOVERNMENT.
THE GOVERNMENT NEED TO BE TOLD, AND THIS IS WHAT THIS GROUP INTENDS TO DO. IT’S AIMS ARE TO CONFRONT THE GOVERNMENT IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE TO DO THE RIGHT THING BY THE SURVIVORS, AND GIVE THE MONEY, AND THAT MEANS, ALL OF THE MONIES TO THE SURVIVORS, AND NOT TO THE GOVERNMENT.
MR BURKE ALSO IS TRYING TO UNITE ( ALL ) OF THE GROUPS, BECAUSE WITHOUT UNITY, WE ARE DEAD IN THE WATER. MOST OF THE GROUPS ARE ALREADY AGREED TO THIS, BUT FOR (2) I BELIEVE. WE WILL GET NOWHERE ( DIVIDED )
I HOPE I HAVE PUT YOU STRAIGHT ON YOUR QUERY, KATHLEEN, BUT I WOULD URGE YOU TO READ MY MESSAGE AGAIN, FOR CLARIFICATION.
WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER, AND THE SOONER WE GET RID OF MR NOEL C BARRY, ( THE DICTATOR ) AND HIS HENCHMEN, THE BETTER. BECAUSE HE WANTS, WHAT WE DONT. AGAIN I WILL SAY. ( NO TRUST FUND )
KIND REGARD’S, MOSSIE.
When these groups started. They were full of promises but as time passed ‘they closed in a groups of cronies. we are still getting promises but I don’t believe them . power goes to their heads and they forget what they are there for . so no i don’t want to trust any more of them .
Hi Rob, thanks for your post, signed the petition , and appreciate all yourself, Paddy, and Kathleen are doing to help our cause. As far as I am concerned, I am happy with Paddy’s site and your shame of Ireland site. I don’t see the need for another site, and would not be happy to be involved with any group that has it’s own agenda, and not the interest’s of the survivor’s at hand. Our issue’s are with the government, and the proposed trust fund, not in getting involved with slagging match’s.
best wishes
Jimmy.
Archbishops told to target Vatican over abuse
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By John Cooney in Rome
Wednesday October 06 2010
A LEADING priest has called on Ireland’s four Catholic archbishops to point the finger of blame at the Vatican for its central role in the global clerical child abuse crisis.
Ahead of today’s long-awaited meeting with senior Vatican officials, Fr Sean McDonagh, an expert on the environment and ecology, has also appealed to an international team of investigators to join forces with the four Irish church leaders in putting the Vatican under fire.
The Irish delegation is led by Cardinal Sean Brady, and the nine-member team of outside investigators is headed by the senior English churchman, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor. Fr McDonagh said yesterday they should insist from the outset that the Vatican be held accountable for the worldwide abuse crisis.
“I believe the Irish archbishops and the team of visitors should begin by scrutinising Rome’s own handling of sex abuse allegations,” Fr McDonagh, a co-founder of the Association of Irish Priests, last night told the Irish Independent.
He instanced how for decades the Vatican shielded the late Fr Marcel Maciel, the notorious Mexican paedophile founder of the ultra-conservative Legionaries of Christ, as “one of the greatest failures in terms of accountability any where in the church”.
However, there was no comment on Fr McDonagh’s challenge from the Irish camp and the investigators, who privately sang from the same hymn sheet that they were all in the dark as to how Pope Benedict wants to conduct the Irish inquiry he announced last March.
A timetable is expected to be agreed today when Cardinal Brady, accompanied by Archbishops Diarmuid Martin, Dermot Clifford and Michael Neary appear, as summoned, before the Congregation of Bishops.
On his arrival in Rome yesterday, Archbishop Neary told the Irish Independent that he would not know if the investigators would consult priests and laity until he knew the outcome of today’s meeting.
Also already in Rome are the heavyweight churchmen from the US and Canada who have been specially assigned by the Vatican to compile an inventory of their conclusions for presentation to Pope Benedict on the shocking findings of the Ryan and Murphy reports.
As well as analysing the causes of the huge scale of clerical child abuse in the archdiocese of Dublin and in industrial schools run by religious orders — as well as their cover-up — the investigating team is to examine the current child protection schemes. How abuse victims are being treated will also be a key feature of the probe.
The investigators will be mandated by the Holy See to come forward with recommendations on how to “assist the local church on her path of renewal”.
- John Cooney in Rome
Irish Independent
Archbishops told to target Vatican over abuse
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Also in National News
A LEADING priest has called on Ireland’s four Catholic archbishops to point the finger of blame at the Vatican for its central role in the global clerical child abuse crisis.
Ahead of today’s long-awaited meeting with senior Vatican officials, Fr Sean McDonagh, an expert on the environment and ecology, has also appealed to an international team of investigators to join forces with the four Irish church leaders in putting the Vatican under fire.
The Irish delegation is led by Cardinal Sean Brady, and the nine-member team of outside investigators is headed by the senior English churchman, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor. Fr McDonagh said yesterday they should insist from the outset that the Vatican be held accountable for the worldwide abuse crisis.
“I believe the Irish archbishops and the team of visitors should begin by scrutinising Rome’s own handling of sex abuse allegations,” Fr McDonagh, a co-founder of the Association of Irish Priests, last night told the Irish Independent.
He instanced how for decades the Vatican shielded the late Fr Marcel Maciel, the notorious Mexican paedophile founder of the ultra-conservative Legionaries of Christ, as “one of the greatest failures in terms of accountability any where in the church”.
However, there was no comment on Fr McDonagh’s challenge from the Irish camp and the investigators, who privately sang from the same hymn sheet that they were all in the dark as to how Pope Benedict wants to conduct the Irish inquiry he announced last March.
A timetable is expected to be agreed today when Cardinal Brady, accompanied by Archbishops Diarmuid Martin, Dermot Clifford and Michael Neary appear, as summoned, before the Congregation of Bishops.
On his arrival in Rome yesterday, Archbishop Neary told the Irish Independent that he would not know if the investigators would consult priests and laity until he knew the outcome of today’s meeting.
Also already in Rome are the heavyweight churchmen from the US and Canada who have been specially assigned by the Vatican to compile an inventory of their conclusions for presentation to Pope Benedict on the shocking findings of the Ryan and Murphy reports.
As well as analysing the causes of the huge scale of clerical child abuse in the archdiocese of Dublin and in industrial schools run by religious orders — as well as their cover-up — the investigating team is to examine the current child protection schemes. How abuse victims are being treated will also be a key feature of the probe.
The investigators will be mandated by the Holy See to come forward with recommendations on how to “assist the local church on her path of renewal”.
- John Cooney in Rome
Irish Independent
Bellow is and email I sent yesterday asking for Unity?
We shall see what relpies I get?
________________________________________
From: Robert Northall [mailto:rob.northall@ntlworld.com]
Sent: 05 October 2010 11:06
To: ‘info@alliancesupport.org’; ‘irishsurvivors.com’; ‘irishsoca@eircom.net’; ‘munstersurvivors@gmail.com’
Subject: We can ALL work Together? TOGETHER WE ARE STRONGER!
Dear ALL!
There is a NEW website set up for Survivors of the Irish Industrial School System; where they can Vote on issues that affect them.
They are disillusioned with so called “Representatives” like the “Right of Place” that have been investigated for Irregular Distribution of Funds!
http://shameofireland.co.uk/
There are 2 Petitions that Directly Affect Survivors!
http://www.petitions.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=238&Itemid=9&latestnews=latest
and
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/267/justice-for-irish-survivors-of-child-abuse/
Which I hope you can support?
The Group is called the “Shame of Ireland” because Ireland, its Politicians and the Religious Orders are ASHAMED OF US; When they are the ones who should be ASHAMED!
The Shame of Ireland Stands for “Democracy Transparency and Inclusion for All!”
Survivors, Their Family Members and Friends, are ALL WELCOME!!
We will be voting to accept the “Aims and Objectives” of The Shame Of Ireland, Soon!
You all are welcome JOIN and to CONTRIBUTE?
Once they are adopted WE will be voting for “Spokes People” to Speak for Survivors with the Mandate of a VOTE on the Topic in Mind (whatever that may be?)!
We currently have 2 Nominations for “Spokes People” if you join you can Nominate others?
This can then be put to the VOTE!
REPRESENTATION WITHOUT LEADERSHIP??
If you know anyone who was affected by the Industrial School System would you please bring this email to their attention and ask them to Join US?
“It is not about Personalities it is about the Task at Hand” nor is it about Competition but Collaboration!
If WE all can get past the Past that divides us WE can build a STRONG FUTURE!
And SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE!!
Your
Friend
Rob
PS If your organisation would like a link on our website, Please let us Know (a reciprocal arrangement would be nice but not always required!)
PPS The Website is Flexible and can accommodate NEW AREAS!!!
Should this website be using this name?
http://www.irish-survivors.com/irish-survivors/
Personally I thik we should do something about it???
Your
Friend
Rob
I don’t want this to ‘sound’ like sour grapes but I believe that the last thing we need is another organisation – it will serve no purpose other than to cause further confusion and in-fighting. It’s my view that the government need another organisation just like they need a hole in the head. Personally, I don’t like the term ‘survivors’ – it’s a term usually associated with war. I’m merely expressing my point of view – nothing more. Paddy
Paddy,
As usual we agree, We do not need more division!
As you can see I have invited the other group to take part in the new Domocracy that is the Shame of Ireland.
If the past tha divides can be put where it belongs there is a STRONG Future?
Ex members of the Right of Place are also welcome; although they may feel a little uncomfortable!
“Show me a Man who has never made a mistake! and I will show you a Man who has never tried to do anything!”
Who is not my Enemy is my Friend!
Your
Friend
Rob
Paddy, i agree with your comment, as my previous post’s indicate.
I would however like to make a few observation’s regarding the new site that Mossie is urging folk to join.
It say’s it will offer a lot to it’s member’s, like support, service’s, etc….
When “Right of Place” first kicked off, i recall, they also offered these same service’s , and for the first few year’s did just that, but then the entire outfit went pearshaped, member’s here in the UK were no longer kept informed, their website was not maintained or kept up to date, and, according to the Media, all sort’s of allegation’s leveled at it’s founder and his ” Henchmen” were reported.
Weighing everything up, i am prompted to ask Mosse, just who is going to fund the day to day cost of the new site he propose’s?
My feeling is that it will be no different from ROP, just a different name, but with many of the personel involved , EX ROP.
The name “Munster ” does not do it for me , there are victim’s all over the world, and our issue is with the Irish Government, and not with ROP or it’s founder. We are informed that the HSE and Gardai are dealing with those matter’s, so it does not appeal to me to want to get involved with any other group that simply want to take over , where ROP left off!
OUT OF THE FRYING PAN ,INTO THE FIRE SPRING’S TO MIND!
My opinion, regard’s Jimmy.
Who can we trust. These investigators from within the church.. the people who run these groups.. just who is this country governed by, the vatican?
UNREAL….UNACCEPTABLE.
Paddy I haven’t written on your site for some time but I do peruse it every now and then. It is very informative and therefore acts as a guideline as to what is going on in Ireland.
I am very much inclined to agree with your previous comment regards yet another organisation (or group) surfacing from nowhere. Whilst there may be great enthusiasm at the birth of a new organisation I feel, and certainly at this stage many years on, that it will be a non-winner. Survivors groups that have been up and running for many years and that have managed to remain faithful to its members are to be recommended and acknowledged for their commitment and indeed their resilience for having the ability to remain focused on the need to help survivors. So many groups have fallen by the way side due to in-fighting and lack of leadership qualities.
I would suggest that organisers of newly formed groups thread very carefully as todays friends could easily be tomorrows enemies. And, as you have also mentioned, I very much doubt that the government will want another group in the fleet of already surviving groups. I also believe that yet another survivors group will be unhealthy with ministers throwing their eyes upwards as if to say “not another one.” For updates and to put our thoughts forward this website is the best by far. Long may it reign.
P.S. Hope you are keeping well.
I agree David that the government will throw their eyes to heaven and come out with something like “not another one” (organisation that is). As I keep saying I don’t claim to represent any group of people nor would I without a mandate. The setting up of another group at this stage is in my view going to prove counter productive.
I’m out of hospital and hoping to stay out of it. Thanks for the nice thoughts David. Best wishes. Paddy
The question foremost in my mind is what do we need these guys for in the first place. It seems to me that it’s like the Mafia investigating the Mafia……..Paddy
There is a danger of too many cooks spoiling the broth here. There’s also the issue of a mandate to speak on behalf of people. I’m not looking for praise but this website has been going for ten years and has always been kept up to date. It has never claimed to represent anyone but it is willing to give a voice to anyone as has been demonstrated over its lifetime. I don’t intend to go into competition with anyone, I’ll keep on doing what I’ve been doing. Best wishes. Paddy
Here Here david.
No need for any groups me thinks. As NONE of them have a MANDATE anyway. Just jumping on another band wagon they are. Like there’s loads and loads of money to be had and times are hard, lets make a new group and see what the department of education gives us, shure didn’t they give Barry and the others loads and loads of money for setting up a group with NO MANDATE
WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT ANOTHER GROUP
WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT ANY NEW TRUST FUNDS
WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT OR NEED ANY MORE EDUCATION
WE THE PEOPLE CAN GET WELFARE HELP LIKE ANY OTHER IRISH CITIZEN IS ENTITLED TO WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A TRUST FUND.
WE THE PEOPLE HAVE HAD IT
small print to follow:
notice how I didn’t call us SURVIVORS.
we are the people
THE PEOPLE OF IRELAND
AND WE SAY
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
STOP THE NEW GROUPS
STOP THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION GIVING TAX PAYERS MONEY TO THESE GROUPS
STOP THE TRUST FUND
STOP IT
STOP IT
STOP IT
I agree that we don’t need division but what the government would love to see is yet another group/organisation springing up. A classic case of ‘divide and conquer’. Lest there me any misunderstanding, I don’t see Shame of Ireland as competition, I believe that what we all should be striving for is unity. To use a cliché – We should all be singing off the same hymn sheet. Paddy.
Paddy,Thank you for this important site,and all your hard work you are doing for us I was worried when I heard you were in hospital, I am delighted you are now out of hospital and back with us I hope you are feeling much better ,I send you my best wishes and love and am sure I speak for all of us
I am glad that I have read the mood of everyone involved in the site; and that the “Concept” of the Shame Of Ireland” has been so well recieved.
Not as “another Group” purporting to represent you all; but a real and tangeable bolt-on to what Paddy has been doing for years! Giving YOU control!
10 years+ Paddy has been keeping the Faith! and GIVING Support and encouragement! and then giving some more!
What the “Shame of Ireland” needs is Membership! and more involvement with the discusions.
Pop in regularly and check on the “LIVE VOTE” this is what gives you a voice!!
THere will be more “LIVE VOTES” over the next few days!!
WE will be voting on “Spokes People” Soon!
Please check out the “LIVE VOTE” and try and RECRUIT more MEMBERS!
The bigger the MEMBERSHIP the BIGGER The VOICE!!
Your
Friend
Rob
Together WE are STRONGER!
Thanks for that Mary. Paddy
@Mary,
You re not the only one, Paddy is well Loved! Why shouldn’t he be!!!!
I am a 1958 to 1960 Daingean “resident”, and would like James ‘Jimmy” Moy get in touch with me….. As I have info that I want to share and consult with him on….. Before publishing it here on the site….. As I don’t want to give “our enemies” a “heads up”… before I/we reveal the true conditions that went on at Daingean!!! Ask Jimmy to contact me at ptdoran17@gmail.com or pat.doran@sbcglobal.net ….. f.y.i. I was at The Redress Bd. Aug. 30….
Paddy.
p.s.
Permission to Rob and Paddy D. to give Jimmy all the info they have re: me…. What I have got…(and was not in the Ryan or Murphy report) Will blow the O.M.I. and the State….OUT OF THE WATER!!! Paddy (in Calif)
DAVID,
IN ANSWER TO YOUR COMMENT. I THINK THE GOVERNMENT AS YOU SAID WILL LIFT THEIR EYES TO HEAVEN, AT THE THOUGHT OF ANOTHER GROUP.
I COULD NOT AGREE WITH THIS COMMENT AT ALL. I’M SURE THE GOVERNMENT WOULD BE RUBBING THEIR HANDS TOGETHER, WITH GLEE SAYING, LOOK AT THEM, THEY CANT EVEN AGREE AMONG THEMSELVES.
IT IS IN THE GOVERNMENT’S INTEREST, TO KEEP THE SURVIVORS APART, AND ARGUING AMONG THEMSELVES, THAT WAY THEY WONT WANT TO TALK TO US, AS WE ARE NOT UNITED, AND SCATTERED EVERYWHERE.
WE ALL NEED TO UNITE UNDER (1) SPEAKER, AND THE SOONER THE BETTER. THE WAY WE ARE GOING, SUITS THE GOVERNMENT VERY WELL. THEY WANT TO KEEP US ALL DIVIDED, AND APART. ITS COMMON SENSE.
THATS WHY MR BARRY, AND COUNTERPART, BUCKLEY WERE ALL ON THE SIDE OF THE GOVERNMENT. THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE SURVIVOR, BUT THEMSELVES.
THAT IS WHY, THEY MUST BE SHOWN THE DOOR, AND GET SOMEONE IN THERE WHO WILL SPEAK TO GOVERNMENT, AND TELL THEM WHAT WE WANT, AND NOT WHAT BARRY, AND BUCKLEY WANT. BECAUSE THEY SPEAK FOR NO ONE ONLY THEMSELVES, AND THE JOBS THEY HAVE LINED UP TO KEEP THEM GOING FOR THE REST OF THEIR DAYS.
I HOPE YOU DONT THINK IM ARGUING WITH YOU DAVID, BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL SIDES HERE, AS LONG AS THEY ARE PULLING THE STRINGS, WE WILL GET NOWHERE.
I ASK PEOPLE AGAIN, REMOVE YOUR SUPPORT FROM BARRY AND BUCKLEY BY DEMANDING YOUR NAMES BE REMOVED FROM THEIR DATA BASE, THEREFORE WHEN THEY GO TO GOVERNMENT FOR FUNDING, THEY WONT HAVE THE MANDATE TO DO IT, BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE DATABASE THEY HOLD WITH YOUR NAMES ON IT, IS WHAT THEY USE TO GET THE FUNDING FROM THE HSE ON OUR BEHALF. WITHOUT THAT DATABASE, THEY ARE DEAD IN THE WATER.
TAKE CARE. MOSSIE.
Well said Mossie.
Kathleen O’malley.
Hi Mosse, Removing our name’s from “RIGHT OF PLACE” is not exactly as easy as it should be. Their web page seem’s to have disappeared, and my attempt’s to phone them only resulted in dead line’s . You said in your post that Barry has only 8 week’s to go,but i would like to know , has he not gone already? It seem’s they have all gone, and mean’s to contact them are being either ignored or also gone!
However, their has been much reference to the fact that everything posted here on Paddy’s site, is being viewed by Government personnel, so i would hope they know by now that these various Group’s do not in fact represent the member’s they claim to have. Also in view of the investigation’s ongoing by the HSE and Gardai on the Funding and expense claim’s by ROP, and other Group’s making simular claim’s, i would hope that every step is taken by the Government to ensure no more of the money, intended for all victim’s , is given to these Group Leader’s!
It is without doubt another good reason for the Government to share out all the religious contribution’s between all that qualify for it, and abandon the idea of a Trust Fund, which , as so many here and in other place’s have indicated, will just bring more hardship and further abuse to all concerned, except those that have ulterior motive’s, and not giving two hoot’s about their so called member’s, will do everything to feather their own nest’s!
The overall indication’s are that the majority of folk want settlement to the entire issue, the contribution’s to be shared out equally, in a fair and just manner, that will allow folk to bring closure on this sad part of their live’s, and , in their elder year’s, enable them to get on with matter’s within their own family’s.
This is the only fair way for the Government to proceed, and it give’s them the opportunity to restore some of the respect that they have lost all over the last century.
The Religious have made some effort, by way of the contribution’s, now it is in the hand’s of the Government to do likewise, and give to the people, what the Religious want them to have.
Best Wish’s
JIMMY.
HI JAMES, WILL REPLY TO YOU SHORTLY. BEST REGARDS, MOSSIE.
James, do you have an email, or phone number i can get you on Mossie.
The Government and Religious at no time acknowledged their wrong doing, until the Reports were exposed.
Why did it take so long ?
Was it really necessary for Survivors (don’t mean to offend) to have had to engage Solicitor to prove our Stories. Then to attend the Redress Board and have a further grilling and HUMILIATION.
Who were the winners in this.? Certainly not us.
We did not require Legal Representation as the proof was there. Who profited by our enormous loss and very painful experiences, The solicitors.
A Trust fund will require Trustees to work this, therefore big salaries will be deducted from the coffers, once again more jobs for the boys. Give us what we want. The Government have all the information required on us, i.e. Names/Addresses etc.
What we want most is for Justice to be done and the Criminals in the Catholic Church to be Prosecuted. They should be hunted down,and taken to Court, like the Jewish people did to the Germans who murdered many thousands of Jewish people.
Kathleen O’Malley.
reading all the above where are the T Ds to support our cause ?
Paddy hope your making good recovery after your spell in hospital.
would you be kind enough to pass on my email address to Mosse.
I did send an email to Patrick Doran , as he asked for same, but so far ,i have not heard from him.
Keep strong. Jimmy.