The Irish Times – Monday, August 23, 2010
ÉIBHIR MULQUEEN in Ennis
THE FUTURE of the Catholic Church was a question which went beyond the effects the abuse scandals had on it in Ireland, historian Diarmaid Ferriter said at the concluding session of the Merriman Summer School yesterday.
Speaking on the theme “From Cullen to Connell: the rise and fall of the Irish Catholic Church”, Prof Ferriter, professor of modern history in UCD, said Ireland was a very small jewel in the Catholic Church crown in the context of its sex abuse scandals.
It would take time to absorb the sheer enormity of what was in the Ryan, Murphy and Ferns reports, but the issues were not unique to Ireland and were now being raised in other countries.
“It may well be more pronounced within Ireland for a whole host of different reasons that are relevant to the 19th and the 20th century in terms of the Catholic culture that was developed,” he said.
The Vatican’s refusal to accept the resignations of the two Dublin auxiliary bishops had been a public humiliation for Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, “which is ironic given what he has done and the way he tried to change the language that was used before”. He believed Archbishop Martin might become a fall guy to the structure, power and control of the church. “Diarmuid Martin can be jumping up and down until he is blue in the face but there are certain things he won’t be able to change on his own.”
Another issue was how long the church could sustain its structures as they were, he said. “They don’t have priests. It has been admitted that they are going to need more and more lay involvement to keep parishes running. The question is, ‘Are they [lay people] actually going to get any say?’
“Thankfully, it is not the job of the historian to predict the future.”
The future of much historical research would be within a comparative international framework, he added. “We have tended to look at ourselves in too insular a way and we do tend to think we are unique in all sorts of ways. And we are in some ways, but in other ways we are not. That is going to be a serious research project for a generation, I think.”
In regard to the church’s historical role, he said while Ireland had appeared to be a Catholic country for Irish people after independence, the reality of how it had been experienced was more nuanced.
Instances of dissent and difference were identifiable both privately and at government level, he said. Attempts to promote mass public devotion, such as during the centenary celebrations of Catholic emancipation in 1929 and the Eucharistic Congress of 1932, had a legitimising effect, but the State had had its way in many church-State tussles.
A 10-year campaign ending in 1935 to have legislation introduced regulating public dances had raised the question of why there were so many unlicensed dances. “You have got to remind yourself when you are talking about denunciations, there was a hell of a lot to be denounced.
“There is a case to be made that a lot of Irish people remained unreadily anarchic in their very daily behaviour.”
hi paddy just thinking they had compliet power over us we must take our power back how by hitting them where it hurts THE POCKET
tHE STORY IS ALL BASED ON RUMEURS. jesus had been dead for a long time before all that stuff was written . the story of the crusifixon was taken from a dairy found in the year 120. it was written by the grandfather of the person who found it . in the dairy he wrote thay have cruxifed my lord but who his lord was we dont know . it fitted thats all. anyway he could write so he wasent poor. the irish catholic church was a lot more realistique before the roman church an all male organisation took over.it was mixed. and thay had kids. when thay took over thay decided no more wives and kids too expensive.then the welsh patrick made new laws. but no one can take the sexuality out of human nature . its a lie
.
i totally agree with raymond barry
we learn history at school and most of history shows us where we come from when i think of it we use history a great deal to be able to develop a better future.
the price of war we have learnt that we must do all in our power to avoid it.
but history has that one vain that is still there today the demon itself that caused more wars and destruction that being religion
how can schools still teach our children about religion yet deny the truth that it “RELIGION” has done nothing but cause the wars. it seems so stupid and rather arrogant to have these people poison the minds of the young.
we have the confusion of being misled that religion is separate from history.
RELIGION IS HISTORY THE BEGINNING AND THE END SO LEAVE IT WHERE IT BELONGS IN OUR HISTORY AS A WARNING TO AVOID AT ALL COSTS FOR THE SAFETY OF THE PEOPLE FROM THE WORST ARMY THAT EVER LIVED.
WHOS AIM WAS SOLEY
TO MAIM, ABUSE, RAPE, NEGLECT, ACCUSE, CURSE, LIE, DECIET, PILLAGE, DEGRADE, INSULT, SLANDER,
STEAL, INVADE, DESTROY,CONFUSE, DENY AND KILL.
SO STOP IT NOW BEFORE IT DOES ANY MORE DAMAGE BY MARKING RELIGION AS THE GOD OF WAR.
SCHOOLS HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO TEACH
HISTORY IS DEAD IT IS PAST RELIGION BELONGS IN THAT PAST.
READING AND WRITING IS AVAILABLE TODAY SO IF PEOPLE
WANT THEIR FAITH THEN STUDY IT FOR YOUR SELF.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ABUSE OTHERS WITH YOUR BELIEFS. THAT IS RELIGIOUS SHOULD BE SEEN IN THE SAME LIGHT AS BEING RACIST.
Redmond Barry,
How do we implement this intelligence.
There are too many in denial of what has happen. They are the one supporting the foundation of the church.
Let’s begin with: no more baptism for children.
Sieglinde
Regulation of Religion
No religion should be promoted to children
No religion may use brainwashing techniques.
NO religion should accrue massive assets.
No religion should be allowed to run education nationally, locally or specifically in forced indoctrination classes.
No religious should be allowed to promote concepts of divine superiority or a connection with a fictitious divine being in any public forum, capacity or document that may be viewed publicly.
No religious may hold a title such as Bishop, holiness, father, sister, brother.
No religious may wear a uniform or congregate in groups.
No religious may exert a right to call upon or visit a home with prior written invitation.
No religious may be present in a hospital.
No religious may participate in decision regarding orphanages or children’s institutions.
****************************************
The regulation of religion is vitally important. This is a just a start.
well said pauline
What kind of organisation can work nowadays and openly ban half of humanity. its discrimination. an all male organisation can not speak for the women thay discriminate against. So the pope should get off his trone and have a look around him. after all he was born of a women just like everyone else. small children do not fall in love with smelly old priests and women are as wise as any man
.
No Paddy,
There is no end to this. The reason is the “The Pollyanna Effect of Looking for the Positive”
http://cigognenews.blogspot.com/2010/08/pollyanna-effect-of-looking-for.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arthurjanov+%28Arthur+Janov%27s+reflections+on+the+Human+Condition%29
This was my comment to this article, how people being snow blinded in ALL churches.
I see the Pollyanna effect not as an inner tranquilizer; it is an “I” conflict, thereof the “repressor” of reality, obvious symptoms, underlining trauma and the denial of it.
Nowhere else have I seen so much fake positive inspiration, as in black churches.
A mass hysteria, acting out in the name of the holy spirit, is formed by a pastor, who leads a congregation in an emotional outburst. People jumping up, screaming, dancing falling over and making complete fools of them selves, then they call it “being visited by the holy spirit”. If one does not participate in this embarrassing show, he/she is labeled as not having the holy spirit”.
Then the pastor, the leader of fulfillment, repeats his most important call; do not worry about paying your electricity bill, give your money to God, he will take care of you. Two week later, when their electricity is cut off. The sinner with out money and no electricity, becomes self-explanatory; I have to pray harder, God is not listening to me yet.
Millions engage in these “being goodly good”, being hopeful and positive every week.
Their lack of identity and self-worth allows them not to criticize the true intention why they are being led into a weekly repeating brainwashing. The need of a religious high, a good weekly oxitoxin rush seems more important than a healthy self-preservation.
Sieglinde
Our sympathies must go to those people whose loved ones died on that day in Claudy. Shame and be damned to those in politics, in the Catholic Church and in the British Government that covered up these dreadful murders. Is there no end to the depths of deceit and hypocrisy that the Catholic Church will sink to. I am disgusted beyond words. Paddy.
The committed evil can no longer be hidden.
Besides abusing children the Catholic Church is involved in other crimes too.
Claudy bomb: conspiracy allowed IRA priest to go free
The police, the Catholic Church and the state conspired to cover up a priest’s suspected role in one of the worst atrocities of the Northern Ireland Troubles, an investigation has found.
Nine people died in bombings in Claudy, County Londonderry on 31 July 1972.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11061296
Sieglinde
if the church was working properly the the vatican would not be rich the pope would not be living like a king and his staff like statesmen.
the poor then might just not starve
Thank you for affording the opportunity to DENOUNCE and CONDEMN SUCH VIEWS.
What chance is there, if scholars such as Mr Diarmaid Ferriter are allowed to elaborate ‘excuses, interpretations and explanations’ for these blatant crimes? Is the gentleman off his rocker or what?
It may not be his job to predict the future. But whatever he may elucubrate about the past, he certainly show HOW BLIND HE IS IN THE ‘PRESENT’.
“It would take time to absorb the sheer enormity of what was in the Ryan, Murphy and Ferns reports, but the issues were not unique to Ireland and were now being raised in other countries.
OH REALLY! DID WE NOT EXPORT THIS EVIL?
“It may well be more pronounced within Ireland for a whole host of different reasons that are relevant to the 19th and the 20th century in terms of the Catholic culture that was developed,” he said.
COULD I BRING MR FERRITER’S ATTENTION TO THE 21ST CENTURY? What are the ‘relevant reasons’ today?
When is a spade not a spade…. WHEN IS RAPE NOT A CRIME? CHILD-MOLESTING ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE BIGGEST SIN OF THEM ALL?
It IS SO, when people ‘sit and watch, as tears, and time go by’, and have lost all sense of DIRECTION and DECENCY.
GGGRRRrrrrrrrr…..!
Raymond