Christine Buckley questions Michael O’Brien’s radio interview from 10 years ago
John Downes, News Investigations Correspondent
Survivors of sexual abuse in religious-run residential institutions are embroiled in an increasingly bitter row over how some €680m in compensation from religious orders identified in the Ryan report should be shared out, the Sunday Tribune has learned.
Michael O'Brien and Christine Buckley accept their People of the Year award last September
The dispute took a dramatic twist this weekend when the Aislinn Centre’s Christine Buckley criticised a decade-old radio interview with the former mayor of Clonmel, Michael O’Brien, where he claimed not to have been sexually abused while he was incarcerated in St Joseph’s industrial school, Ferryhouse.
This directly contradicts a highly-charged intervention on RTE’s Questions and Answers programme in May of last year, where O’Brien detailed the extent of abuse he suffered, prompting widespread public sympathy and anger.
During the 1999 interview on a local radio station, O’Brien expresses sympathy for victims of sexual abuse who suffered at the hands of the notorious Rosminian abuser at Ferryhouse, Brother Sean Barry. He goes on to say: “But I must say, and I have to say it here and now, because I had to meet my family when this came out. And say it never happened to me, I never seen it happening, I never heard of it happening in my seven years in Ferryhouse. I never seen or heard of it.”
Although O’Brien acknowledges in the interview that he was subjected to physical abuse and deprivation at Ferryhouse, he also pays tribute to the Rosminians and says that this was the state’s fault, not Ferryhouse.
“We were left there to those brothers and those priests to become our parents, and look after us. And as far as I’m concerned, 99.9% of them done a good job… out of every group, no matter what organisation you’re in, you’ll find bad eggs, Ferryhouse is my home. And I will defend it to the end as long as I live, because I was reared by them.”
Goldenbridge survivor Buckley told the Sunday Tribune that she has “very deep reservations and concerns” about the interview.
“I couldn’t doubt any victim of institutional abuse nor have I ever questioned anybody before. This is the first time I have done this,” she said. “Being in denial is being in denial. But why be so vociferous in protecting the Rosminian order on the radio?”
Buckley pointed out that O’Brien gave the radio interview before the Taoiseach Bertie Ahern’s apology on behalf of the state to victims of institutional abuse on 11 May, 1999.
Buckley added that she was passed a copy of O’Brien’s radio interview in October of last year anonymously. If she had known its contents a month earlier, when she accepted a People of the Year award with O’Brien, she said she did not think she could have gone onstage with him.
When contacted by the Sunday Tribune this weekend O’Brien strongly defended the interview, which he said he had given in recognition of the fact that Ferryhouse was the “only home I ever knew”.
“The reason I didn’t say anything about sexual abuse on local radio was that I didn’t want my family or anybody to know about it. I didn’t want to talk about it… I had been mayor of Clonmel and I didn’t want anyone to know about it,” he said. “I want nothing off anyone out of this. I said that to the Taoiseach, I said it everywhere I went. I want nothing off you. I said it to the Bishops, personally I want nothing off of anybody. But I’ll fight on my back for former residents, I do want the former residents set up. I do not want money out of it. I never wanted money out of it. And that is a fact.”
Both Buckley and O’Brien were among a group of representatives of survivors who met with Taoiseach Brian Cowen last April. But O’Brien and other groups such as the Survivors of Child Abuse (SOCA) Ireland stormed out after they were informed by Cowen that just €110m out of some €680m expected total compensation from religious orders was to go into a state-administered fund for former residents of the institutions.
They were told at the meeting that the congregations had offered additional compensation which they value at €348.51m, on top of the €128m already contributed under the controversial 2002 indemnity deal. The government also intends to seek over €200m more from the congregations to reach some €680m, or a 50% share, of the €1.36bn cost of the indemnity deal.
Buckley and others such as One in Four, who have extensive experience of providing counselling and support services to abuse survivors, have broadly welcomed the allocation of €110m, although they say more will likely be needed. They argue that it would be impossible to provide individual financial compensation to survivors fairly.
“How can we have people stating that they’re entitled to this money, when the same people do not see the importance of education and counselling, and the Barnardos tracing service for example?” Buckley said.
They believe it is far preferable for education, health, housing and other counselling services to be provided on an “as needed” basis to the tens of thousands of survivors both in Ireland and abroad, regardless of whether they went before the Redress board.
However, John Kelly of SOCA told the Sunday Tribune that his group and others, including O’Brien’s Right to Peace group, want the entire €680m placed in a fund which would provide financial compensation to survivors, for them to spend as they see fit.
May 16, 2010
Hello Robert who is Pat Carey and what is his address. I left Ireland a long long time ago. Thank you for sharing your information with all of us. It makes a lovely change .
thank you catherine i was worried if i said the right things by survivors. when i speak for survivors i feel i am also speaking myself. regards robert
http://www.fiannafail.ie/patcarey is the link you will need pauline it is about how finnafail got things wrong or something like that he was elected to listen to the public and on this page of his he wants any questions that need answering. some kind of survey. i hope this helps and i hope many survivors flood this guys site:
http://www.fiannafail.ie/patcarey
pat carey t.d. minister for equality and gaeltach affairs
Going back to what you said David about why I would go on hunger strike…I’d do it if I felt it would get this compensation into the hands of survivors who have needs other than what’s been put forward..its a well known fact 99 percent of survivors want that..if I did go and do it I’d want no cash for myself and I’d state that from the start..as you know I don’t hide behind a door and you know I support O’Brien on his point that the cash should go to survivors and that’s my stand..I felt O’Brien was in his rights to walk out of that meeting with Cowan I would have done the same..those who stayed well what did they gain on are behalf..nothing so far.you no I’ve this feeling all where going to get is confused people saying there ideas on this website and that’s the way it was planed to be by those high up..the government set up a panel they were suppose to deal with this and work this all out but my feeling is somebody’s trying to just make this into a game to wear us all out.as for the Joe Duffy show..Mr. O’Brien tried to let Buckley say what she had to say but then she wouldn’t let him talk she kept trying to rub him up the wrong way any way she could..lastly can I just say about the front cover of the papers the day after the 1 year of Ryan report..there you had C. Buckley and her group all smiling cutting a big cake, lets all have a big party and be happy its a year since the Ryan report came out.my girlfriend looked at the paper and said them people are sick.God help us all if that’s what we’ll see every year to remind us of the suffering kids went true for years..a cake!
Just a quick comment on. By walking out of the meeting Mr. O’Brien did neither himself or those he claims to represent any service whatever. In my view it was a futile move which in time he will come to regret. Paddy
abusing other people is wrong . but abusing your body by starving yourself will not change things for the groups . but we need each other to stand together . dont let frustration be the winner . no offence meant to anybody
It’s sad to read all the comments. It seems to me that this has upset everyone, didn’t we go through enough. the money should be divided and be done with it.
It’s my view for what it’s worth that if we reduce the horrible crimes perpetrated against innocent children down to just money, we are losing sight of the much bigger issue. My own opinion is that the discussion is healthy and doesn’t happen on any other website that I’m aware of. Paddy.
by signing anything with so called groups remember you are giving them.-POWER, YOUR MONEY, CONTROL, BUSINESS,
THIS WAS TAKEN FROM YOU AS CHILDREN ARE YOU GOING TO LET IT HAPPEN NOW THE CHOICE IS YOURS.
all you need is an office with a voice if you feel you have a need, family issues are not on these groups agenda
ONLY -COUNSELLING , EDUCATION FUNDING, FAMILY TRACING.
THE SOCIAL WELFARE OF FAMILIES WHO ARE STRUGGLING ARE NOT ON THIS AGENDA AS THE LEADERS OF THESE GROUPS ARE BLIND TO THE CAUSE OF SURVIVORS. THEY HAVE NO YOUNG CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE FOR THE COUNSELING, EDUCATION ,FAMILY TRACING FUNDS.
ARE WE GOING TO NOW LET THESE GROUPS NEGLECT THESE LITTLE ONES TOO.
WE SHOULD BE FIGHTING FOR WELFARE ISSUES MORE THAN ANYTHING ALONG WITH WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS.
THIS KIND OF SOCIAL CONTROL BY THESE GROUPS ARE THE SAME SOCIAL CONTROL OF THE CHURCH OF PAST
ONLY THEIR VIEWS MATTER NOT YOURS DO AS YOU ARE TOLD OR ELSE
Chrissie West Buckley as I knew her is talking out of her hat,Myself and others had to go to the Salvation Army to trace siblings, or Barnardos who do it for free. As No Help was forth coming from any of those groups NONE! She has stirred things up enough for the real victims. most courses at colleges are FREE anyway and what would I be wanting to go to college for at my age NO THANKS, Even counselling is FREE ,
but dont forget shes the best paid volunteer in ireland . so she hangs on to it . what exactly does she do apart from sitting in the building of the redress board . what with so many people from goldenbridge going there, It destroys everybody’s confidence
So much time has has passed since this blog first started and so little seems to have changed?
There is however a Petition @
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mandate-for-paddy-doyle-to-represent-survivors/
For those of you who do not Know?
There is also the “Shame of Ireland” @http://bit.ly/agjWv0
Where we are trying to take action on issues that are raised in this Blog and on this Site??
The Shame of Ireland unlike a Petition needs the Constant Involvement of the Members!
We are struggling to make progress and are discussing this @ http://shameofireland.co.uk/forum/topics/open-forum-share-stories?xg_source=activity&id=5172640%3ATopic%3A26764&page=1#comments
You have to be a Member of the Shame of Ireland to take part in its Activities!
There are many problems that we as Survivors face, problems are are individual and collective.
This means that there are individual solutions and collective solutions. It’s not an either/or situation.
These problems are the after effects of the abuse we suffered, which are physical and psychological trauma.
The effects of not having been able to tell others, be they family, friends or support services about our experiences.Lonliess, isolation, fear.
The effects of denial or mitigation or dismissiveness of our community when we do speak out. Anger, fear, isolation, paranoia.
The effects of holding our woundedness for so long, that we develope secondary psychological problems.
The effects of being unable to hold long term relationships, jobs and careers.
The effects of not being able to trust others.
The effects of knowing that the abuse was and is being covered up, the story and history being ‘managed’ to protect both Church and State and other bodies who held and hold responsibility.
The effects of knowing that abuse is still common, that others are being abused, even to this day, and that the roots of the abuse are not being addressed, and in spite of evidence and plenty of very good scientific understanding (out of which healthful practices have emerged to prevent further abuse) the media and State and Church still avoid promoting these learnings.
None of these will be resolved by money alone.
They will be resolved by providing adequate support for:
Telling the truth : open forums to tell our stories, open forums to examine who abused, who cover-ed up and why they covered up;criminal prosecutions for all abusers, and detailed inquiries into the actions of all those who covered up, for whatever reason, so that the dynmaics of cover-up are understood, so that ‘good’ people who cover-up understand the impacts of their actions and understand that they must not cover-up.
Providing for our health : by providing best possible health care, best possible community interaction and understanding of the issues and dynmaics of abuse.
Providing for our sustenance : Pensions separate from all other benefits are a useful idea.
Prevention: This is REALLY important. Apart from child protection legislation with real teeth, there needs to be a wider understanding of the dynamics of abuse, within families, and within all situations where adults have responsibility and power over children. Schools, care systems, sports training, etc etc…..
There also needs to be a wider understanding of the dynmaics of intergenerational trauma patterning, which is how adverse behaviour patterns are passed from generation to generation in spite of peoples best efforts as they ‘cope# with the effects (above) of abuse without proper support or understanding.
For all of this there needs to be State Funding of appropriate organisations (led by Surviviors, informed by Survivors) PLUS awards to individual Survivors, not as compensation or reparation, but as offers of genuine support, to nurture Survivors for what remains of our lives.
Thses are my thoughts on this at this time.
Finally let me say this : we have seen how two prominent Survivors, from different perspectives, have in the very recent past, engaged in public disputes that have revealed unresolved behaviour patterns : That one of these Survivors should label and judge other Surviviors in adverse ways (from a position of being one who offers ‘care’ ) speaks of the profound misunderstandings that still dominate the discourse, speaks of the ways in which wounded people can re-wound others, and can be manipulated or ‘triggered’ by those who feel they have the ‘most to lose’ in all of this – The State and The Church.
That they see it thus – that they have something to lose – speaks volumes of their psychology, of their inadequate response to the abuse story.
There is still so much to do in all of this.
Kindest regards
Corneilius Crowley
London