Survivors at loggerheads over denial of sex abuse

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Christine Buckley questions Michael O’Brien’s radio interview from 10 years ago
John Downes, News Investigations Correspondent

Survivors of sexual abuse in religious-run residential institutions are embroiled in an increasingly bitter row over how some €680m in compensation from religious orders identified in the Ryan report should be shared out, the Sunday Tribune has learned.

Michael O'Brien and Christine Buckley accept their People of the Year award last September

The dispute took a dramatic twist this weekend when the Aislinn Centre’s Christine Buckley criticised a decade-old radio interview with the former mayor of Clonmel, Michael O’Brien, where he claimed not to have been sexually abused while he was incarcerated in St Joseph’s industrial school, Ferryhouse.

This directly contradicts a highly-charged intervention on RTE’s Questions and Answers programme in May of last year, where O’Brien detailed the extent of abuse he suffered, prompting widespread public sympathy and anger.

During the 1999 interview on a local radio station, O’Brien expresses sympathy for victims of sexual abuse who suffered at the hands of the notorious Rosminian abuser at Ferryhouse, Brother Sean Barry. He goes on to say: “But I must say, and I have to say it here and now, because I had to meet my family when this came out. And say it never happened to me, I never seen it happening, I never heard of it happening in my seven years in Ferryhouse. I never seen or heard of it.”

Although O’Brien acknowledges in the interview that he was subjected to physical abuse and deprivation at Ferryhouse, he also pays tribute to the Rosminians and says that this was the state’s fault, not Ferryhouse.

“We were left there to those brothers and those priests to become our parents, and look after us. And as far as I’m concerned, 99.9% of them done a good job… out of every group, no matter what organisation you’re in, you’ll find bad eggs, Ferryhouse is my home. And I will defend it to the end as long as I live, because I was reared by them.”

Goldenbridge survivor Buckley told the Sunday Tribune that she has “very deep reservations and concerns” about the interview.

“I couldn’t doubt any victim of institutional abuse nor have I ever questioned anybody before. This is the first time I have done this,” she said. “Being in denial is being in denial. But why be so vociferous in protecting the Rosminian order on the radio?”

Buckley pointed out that O’Brien gave the radio interview before the Taoiseach Bertie Ahern’s apology on behalf of the state to victims of institutional abuse on 11 May, 1999.

Buckley added that she was passed a copy of O’Brien’s radio interview in October of last year anonymously. If she had known its contents a month earlier, when she accepted a People of the Year award with O’Brien, she said she did not think she could have gone onstage with him.

When contacted by the Sunday Tribune this weekend O’Brien strongly defended the interview, which he said he had given in recognition of the fact that Ferryhouse was the “only home I ever knew”.

“The reason I didn’t say anything about sexual abuse on local radio was that I didn’t want my family or anybody to know about it. I didn’t want to talk about it… I had been mayor of Clonmel and I didn’t want anyone to know about it,” he said. “I want nothing off anyone out of this. I said that to the Taoiseach, I said it everywhere I went. I want nothing off you. I said it to the Bishops, personally I want nothing off of anybody. But I’ll fight on my back for former residents, I do want the former residents set up. I do not want money out of it. I never wanted money out of it. And that is a fact.”

Both Buckley and O’Brien were among a group of representatives of survivors who met with Taoiseach Brian Cowen last April. But O’Brien and other groups such as the Survivors of Child Abuse (SOCA) Ireland stormed out after they were informed by Cowen that just €110m out of some €680m expected total compensation from religious orders was to go into a state-administered fund for former residents of the institutions.

They were told at the meeting that the congregations had offered additional compensation which they value at €348.51m, on top of the €128m already contributed under the controversial 2002 indemnity deal. The government also intends to seek over €200m more from the congregations to reach some €680m, or a 50% share, of the €1.36bn cost of the indemnity deal.

Buckley and others such as One in Four, who have extensive experience of providing counselling and support services to abuse survivors, have broadly wel­comed the allocation of €110m, although they say more will likely be needed. They argue that it would be impossible to provide individual financial compensation to survivors fairly.

“How can we have people stating that they’re entitled to this money, when the same people do not see the importance of education and counselling, and the Barnardos tracing service for example?” Buckley said.

They believe it is far preferable for education, health, housing and other counselling services to be provided on an “as needed” basis to the tens of thousands of survivors both in Ireland and abroad, regardless of whether they went before the Redress board.

However, John Kelly of SOCA told the Sunday Tribune that his group and others, including O’Brien’s Right to Peace group, want the entire €680m placed in a fund which would provide financial compensation to survivors, for them to spend as they see fit.

May 16, 2010

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Category: Child Abuse

113 comments on “Survivors at loggerheads over denial of sex abuse

  1. There are many problems that we as Survivors face, problems are are individual and collective.

    This means that there are individual solutions and collective solutions. It’s not an either/or situation.

    These problems are the after effects of the abuse we suffered, which are physical and psychological trauma.

    The effects of not having been able to tell others, be they family, friends or support services about our experiences.Lonliess, isolation, fear.

    The effects of denial or mitigation or dismissiveness of our community when we do speak out. Anger, fear, isolation, paranoia.

    The effects of holding our woundedness for so long, that we develope secondary psychological problems.

    The effects of being unable to hold long term relationships, jobs and careers.

    The effects of not being able to trust others.

    The effects of knowing that the abuse was and is being covered up, the story and history being ‘managed’ to protect both Church and State and other bodies who held and hold responsibility.

    The effects of knowing that abuse is still common, that others are being abused, even to this day, and that the roots of the abuse are not being addressed, and in spite of evidence and plenty of very good scientific understanding (out of which healthful practices have emerged to prevent further abuse) the media and State and Church still avoid promoting these learnings.

    None of these will be resolved by money alone.

    They will be resolved by providing adequate support for:

    Telling the truth : open forums to tell our stories, open forums to examine who abused, who cover-ed up and why they covered up;criminal prosecutions for all abusers, and detailed inquiries into the actions of all those who covered up, for whatever reason, so that the dynmaics of cover-up are understood, so that ‘good’ people who cover-up understand the impacts of their actions and understand that they must not cover-up.

    Providing for our health : by providing best possible health care, best possible community interaction and understanding of the issues and dynmaics of abuse.

    Providing for our sustenance : Pensions separate from all other benefits are a useful idea.

    Prevention: This is REALLY important. Apart from child protection legislation with real teeth, there needs to be a wider understanding of the dynamics of abuse, within families, and within all situations where adults have responsibility and power over children. Schools, care systems, sports training, etc etc…..

    There also needs to be a wider understanding of the dynmaics of intergenerational trauma patterning, which is how adverse behaviour patterns are passed from generation to generation in spite of peoples best efforts as they ‘cope# with the effects (above) of abuse without proper support or understanding.

    For all of this there needs to be State Funding of appropriate organisations (led by Surviviors, informed by Survivors) PLUS awards to individual Survivors, not as compensation or reparation, but as offers of genuine support, to nurture Survivors for what remains of our lives.

    Thses are my thoughts on this at this time.

    Finally let me say this : we have seen how two prominent Survivors, from different perspectives, have in the very recent past, engaged in public disputes that have revealed unresolved behaviour patterns : That one of these Survivors should label and judge other Surviviors in adverse ways (from a position of being one who offers ‘care’ ) speaks of the profound misunderstandings that still dominate the discourse, speaks of the ways in which wounded people can re-wound others, and can be manipulated or ‘triggered’ by those who feel they have the ‘most to lose’ in all of this – The State and The Church.

    That they see it thus – that they have something to lose – speaks volumes of their psychology, of their inadequate response to the abuse story.

    There is still so much to do in all of this.

    Kindest regards

    Corneilius Crowley

    London

  2. So much time has has passed since this blog first started and so little seems to have changed?

    There is however a Petition @
    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mandate-for-paddy-doyle-to-represent-survivors/
    For those of you who do not Know?
    There is also the “Shame of Ireland” @http://bit.ly/agjWv0
    Where we are trying to take action on issues that are raised in this Blog and on this Site??

    The Shame of Ireland unlike a Petition needs the Constant Involvement of the Members!

    We are struggling to make progress and are discussing this @ http://shameofireland.co.uk/forum/topics/open-forum-share-stories?xg_source=activity&id=5172640%3ATopic%3A26764&page=1#comments

    You have to be a Member of the Shame of Ireland to take part in its Activities!

  3. but dont forget shes the best paid volunteer in ireland . so she hangs on to it . what exactly does she do apart from sitting in the building of the redress board . what with so many people from goldenbridge going there, It destroys everybody’s confidence

  4. Chrissie West Buckley as I knew her is talking out of her hat,Myself and others had to go to the Salvation Army to trace siblings, or Barnardos who do it for free. As No Help was forth coming from any of those groups NONE! She has stirred things up enough for the real victims. most courses at colleges are FREE anyway and what would I be wanting to go to college for at my age NO THANKS, Even counselling is FREE ,

  5. by signing anything with so called groups remember you are giving them.-POWER, YOUR MONEY, CONTROL, BUSINESS,
    THIS WAS TAKEN FROM YOU AS CHILDREN ARE YOU GOING TO LET IT HAPPEN NOW THE CHOICE IS YOURS.
    all you need is an office with a voice if you feel you have a need, family issues are not on these groups agenda
    ONLY -COUNSELLING , EDUCATION FUNDING, FAMILY TRACING.

    THE SOCIAL WELFARE OF FAMILIES WHO ARE STRUGGLING ARE NOT ON THIS AGENDA AS THE LEADERS OF THESE GROUPS ARE BLIND TO THE CAUSE OF SURVIVORS. THEY HAVE NO YOUNG CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE FOR THE COUNSELING, EDUCATION ,FAMILY TRACING FUNDS.

    ARE WE GOING TO NOW LET THESE GROUPS NEGLECT THESE LITTLE ONES TOO.
    WE SHOULD BE FIGHTING FOR WELFARE ISSUES MORE THAN ANYTHING ALONG WITH WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS.

    THIS KIND OF SOCIAL CONTROL BY THESE GROUPS ARE THE SAME SOCIAL CONTROL OF THE CHURCH OF PAST
    ONLY THEIR VIEWS MATTER NOT YOURS DO AS YOU ARE TOLD OR ELSE

  6. It’s my view for what it’s worth that if we reduce the horrible crimes perpetrated against innocent children down to just money, we are losing sight of the much bigger issue. My own opinion is that the discussion is healthy and doesn’t happen on any other website that I’m aware of. Paddy.

  7. It’s sad to read all the comments. It seems to me that this has upset everyone, didn’t we go through enough. the money should be divided and be done with it.

  8. abusing other people is wrong . but abusing your body by starving yourself will not change things for the groups . but we need each other to stand together . dont let frustration be the winner . no offence meant to anybody

  9. Just a quick comment on. By walking out of the meeting Mr. O’Brien did neither himself or those he claims to represent any service whatever. In my view it was a futile move which in time he will come to regret. Paddy

  10. Going back to what you said David about why I would go on hunger strike…I’d do it if I felt it would get this compensation into the hands of survivors who have needs other than what’s been put forward..its a well known fact 99 percent of survivors want that..if I did go and do it I’d want no cash for myself and I’d state that from the start..as you know I don’t hide behind a door and you know I support O’Brien on his point that the cash should go to survivors and that’s my stand..I felt O’Brien was in his rights to walk out of that meeting with Cowan I would have done the same..those who stayed well what did they gain on are behalf..nothing so far.you no I’ve this feeling all where going to get is confused people saying there ideas on this website and that’s the way it was planed to be by those high up..the government set up a panel they were suppose to deal with this and work this all out but my feeling is somebody’s trying to just make this into a game to wear us all out.as for the Joe Duffy show..Mr. O’Brien tried to let Buckley say what she had to say but then she wouldn’t let him talk she kept trying to rub him up the wrong way any way she could..lastly can I just say about the front cover of the papers the day after the 1 year of Ryan report..there you had C. Buckley and her group all smiling cutting a big cake, lets all have a big party and be happy its a year since the Ryan report came out.my girlfriend looked at the paper and said them people are sick.God help us all if that’s what we’ll see every year to remind us of the suffering kids went true for years..a cake!

  11. http://www.fiannafail.ie/patcarey is the link you will need pauline it is about how finnafail got things wrong or something like that he was elected to listen to the public and on this page of his he wants any questions that need answering. some kind of survey. i hope this helps and i hope many survivors flood this guys site:
    http://www.fiannafail.ie/patcarey
    pat carey t.d. minister for equality and gaeltach affairs

  12. thank you catherine i was worried if i said the right things by survivors. when i speak for survivors i feel i am also speaking myself. regards robert

  13. Hello Robert who is Pat Carey and what is his address. I left Ireland a long long time ago. Thank you for sharing your information with all of us. It makes a lovely change .

  14. Robert I agree with your e-mail to Pat Carey.Thank you for the care and time you spend trying to help survivors.Catherine.

  15. i did not vote for anyone to represent me

  16. i did not vote for anyone to rep. me

  17. i agree with Rose. We can make up our own minds. i never voted for anyone to represent me

  18. i have just sent this to pat carey i hope i have done the right thing by all.
    why is the government dealing with survivor of abuse groups only, where a. survivors are not happy with.
    b. not all survivors want to be represented by these groups.

    1. there is only education where there are queues far too long for the grants that are not being paid on time.
    2. counseling again queues for this are far too long and unpaid, and nothing is been made clear about the counselor of choice.
    3. do survivors have to make known redress to social welfare or not, many have been told they have to make it known but not how much. why? this redress is taken into account when survivors are being assessed
    4. although there are three systems in place (not working properly) 1. education, counseling, family tracing.
    but absolutely no extra support for survivors struggling with family life especially where underage children and older survivors have no need for the three set up.
    5. why is there not a overseer at all meetings of these groups as to make sure the survivors are being treated equaly.
    6. please read paddy doyle’s site for more complaints people there want a petition on how all these groups are run, and there are a lot of survivors not being represented.
    7. it is not fair these groups are making decisions on behalf of survivors who have never been asked what needs they have nor have they been contacted before any meetings take place with the government and religious orders.
    there are 15000 survivors all names and sddresses known to some one would it not be right to send questions directly to all by an overseer to see how they feel about the treatment they are receiving before this also comes to the surface that even more neglect is going on.
    mabs have a good form simple and easy to follow. just tick the boxes and a space to write about any complaints so far. this would be the only fair way to see where the taxpayers money is to be spent properly on every single survivor, by not giving power soley to these groups where thousands are just not happy. with thousands of survivors and their families that is a lot of votes do you agree?

  19. as soon as the petition is organised LET US KNOW SO THAT WE CAN ACTIVLY TAKE PART . LETS NOT WASTE TIME ANYMORE

  20. THERE IS SO MUCH HERE FOR A PETITION DO YOU PEOPLE HERE AGREE OR AM I WASTING MY TIME?
    these groups should be protesting strongly not protecting and supporting their own views on us all.
    we need to find as many survivors as we can to see if they need the proper help they deserve with an open ear and eyes to see what the heck has been going on.
    but all must be done peacefully.
    we need that office of personal support for all survivors call it what you will solicitor/ overseer/spokesperson.
    thank you David for seeing the same needs.
    where can we find this office for that proper support?

  21. ever since the taoiseach’s apology he has always mentioned the taxpayer’s money paid for this and that and is taken back two thirds of the 600 million euro claiming it was the taxpayers 50% well how many survivors and their families have paid tax does this mean survivors and family should be refunded? and i must ask about the survivors money going to these groups are they paying tax on supposidly survivor’s cash that is paying these groups?

    there are a lot of survivors who received redress do they know if they have to pay tax or not if so where when how as
    i am very sure this has not been explained to them by anyone. they will be unaware of anything to do with this too.

    do survivors have to make known their redress to social offices? i just bet they have not got a clue here either.

    THERE IS NO CLEAR INFORMATION ON THIS MATTER NOTHING HAS BEEN EXPLAINED I BELIEVE SURVIVORS ARE LOOSING THEIR MONEY FAST AS THEY ARE NOT MADE AWARE OF THEIR ENTITLEMENTS PROPERLY.

    COME TO THINK OF IT THERE ARE NO ENTITLEMENTS AT ALL AS THEY FEAR TO TELL ANYONE THEY RECEIVED REDRESS. CONFUSING? YEP I AM .
    HOW DO YOU FIND OUT YOUR ENTITLEMENTS REGARDING YOUR REDRESS WHEN IT IS ILLEGAL TO TELL ANYONE YOU RECEIVED IT.

    THE GROUPS HAVE NOT GOT A CLUE OR THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED AS THEY WAVE YOU AWAY TO YOUR SOLICITOR FOR ANSWERS
    THE SOLICITORS GOT PAID, AFTER THE REDRESS IS THEIR WORK FINISHED? DO THEY KNOW FOR SURE THEMSELVES?

    come on these questions have not been asked or answered yet. where were the groups here eh?
    they have done their job also?
    Christine Buckley is so far removed from survivors she never mentioned that this loss could be happening to the survivors themselves protecting and supporting who? Christine

  22. Hi David
    PADDY HAS THE ONLY SITE WHERE WE CAN SPEAK OPENLY AND HAVE SOME KIND OF VOICE WHERE ELSE CAN WE GO?

    NO ONE HAS SET UP ANYTHING LIKE IT. YOU CAN HAVE FOR AND AGAINST THE VIEWS HERE.

    ALL MEETINGS OF ANY KIND BY THESE GROUPS SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL IF THERE IS NO SOLICITOR/OVERSEER/SPOKESPERSON TO MAKE SURE SURVIVORS ARE AWARE OF WHAT IS GOING ON BEFORE THEY AGREE TO ANYTHING.

    WE NEED SOMEONE NOW:
    READING PADDY DOYLE’S SITE HERE CLEARS EVERY THING UP FOR ME HE IS OPEN AND HAS BEEN HONEST FROM THE START. WHO ELSE IS THERE?
    thanks david regards robert

  23. The short answer to your question Charles is: YES, Paddy. PS. Just let me know as soon as the petition is on the web and live. Then I can put a link from my site directly to it. Remember, as David said, we need the numbers otherwise we are going nowhere.

  24. If the wording of the petition is such that it explains what it’s all about then it doesn’t matter who puts it up. I would be sufficient to petition me and to count each petition as a vote. Paddy

  25. paddy what do you think of the idea i put forward regarding protection for survivors in group meetings, who are signing things they are not fully aware of as they cannot read or write or understand what is being presented to them by in house meetings.

    that these solicitors of all groups should be taken off the books because if they are being honest with survivors they have no need, and this would save survivors money.
    if any person leading a group wants to use a solicitor he/she should pay for one themselves if they have been found of fowl play.

    this solicitor/overseer/spokesperson, should be acting as an overseer for all survivors and paid by the government as an extra, to save what they call taxpayers money by making sure their money is going to the needs of survivors and to make sure all being treated the very same that there is no favoritism, no bullying, no pressure-rising.
    plus a private office for the solicitor/overseer/spokesperson where survivors can go in confidence to be heard.

    all meetings amongst survivors should have a solicitor/overseer/spokesperson to explain everything in a very clear fashion that all understand what they are signing or getting themselves into.

    that if survivors are not being heard they can write/phone/visit to complain to the office of the solicitor/overseer/spokesperson.

    it should be made illegal to hold meetings behind closed doors or with survivors without this solicitor/overseer/spokesperson in place. to make sure these groups are not deciding for survivors without their consent, as it is their needs these groups should be supporting not their own inflated ideas.

    this solicitor/overseer/spokesperson should have the right to examine all financial records past present and future and delivered to survivors if they request them, after all it is survivor monies.
    wages should be looked into properly as this is not a business.

    i personally protest against the way these groups are working or claiming to work on behalf of survivors.
    these are my request to you paddy if you wish to be my spokesperson as i do not trust in any group any more.
    i also want for my name to be removed from the right of place and all documents returned to me.
    i trust you more than any group yet sir.
    robert mullen

  26. I’ve always held the view that the families of survivors should have a vote when it comes to issues regarding abuse. It’s often forgotten that families bear the pain and trauma of abuse suffered by their loved ones. Paddy.

  27. Your comments are getting through to me. I’m not sure what the java scrip error is about. You many have that problem intermittently. If it persists, let me know and I will see what I can do to resolve the problem. Paddy

  28. David, there is nothing in your comment that I can disagree with. What troubles me greatly is that there now appears to be some sort of collusion with the so called “representative groups” and the government. This is a scandalous state of affairs. We do need to find a way of stopping these meetings and to let the government know that NOT ONE OF THE GROUPS THEY ARE TALKING TO HAVE A MANDATE TO SPEAK ON OUR BEHALF. Trouble is that we are now up against time. Perhaps an online petition might go some way towards bringing the issue into the public domain. People could write to various government departments via the government website http://www.irlgov.ie. Have you any idea’s David as to how best to stop these meetings or at least to inform the government of where we stand on them. You’re comments as always are welcome.
    Given the recent behaviour of Mr. O’Brien and Ms Buckley it’s hard to see why the government would want to discuss anything with them.

    Paddy.

  29. Do survivors families have a vote or would it be restricted to survivors only?. Families are very much a part of the issiue. The question is no doubt open for debate.

  30. Well Paddy, I see your point and agree. Which beggers the question “Who will put up the petiton which will persuade you to come forward so as we can vote you to the position of ombudsman, or is it suffice to petion you and count each petition as a vote?.

  31. In other words Paddy are you prepared to stand as a canditate in an election with a programme we can vote for ,so as to send you as our democraticaly elected ombudsman in negotiations with bodies who owe the survivors a great deal. I prefer the name “Ombudsman” (The title group representive being toxic)

  32. Charles, let me have a think about that and see what I can do. I still feel the petition should be set up by someone else. If I do it, it’s going to look as if I’m ‘touting for business” and that would also give so called representative groups a stick to beat us all with. It could be seen as playing right into their hands. Paddy.

  33. Paddy, Would you put up your own petition on your site worded in such a way as to reflect the intersts of surviviors?. It’s a beginning. for those who do not have internet but wish to cast their vote then they could use an ombudsman to do that at say a public libary or other location. I feel the voting should take place through your site for the sake of tranparency and to avoid it being carried out on an ad hoc basis. Your site would allso become a voting station just as in any election.

  34. Sorry about that – I managed to post the comment (above) that I had being trying to post but kep having problems. OK now. I still believe a picket would hear our voices. Best wishes. David (UK).

  35. Well something isn’t quite right here. The site shows Charles as the petitions creator and Paddys signature. Hmmm… do we have a rogue amongst us?

    Robert, from reading the site it appears, the petition can only be removed by it’s creator. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused by putting the link on here.

  36. Paddy, a petition is useless unless there are at least 200 or 300 signatures to it. And, as you pointed out, the petition needs to have an agenda so to speak. Reasons for the petition and the positive assertions as to why petitioning. As much as Robert feels passionate (and he really is passionate) about having you as a repesentive for survivors who don’t know about survivors groups and indeed those who do know about them, but find they are a waste of time and don’t really represent us at all, you would still need hundreds of names to the petition. Unfortunately there are not enough people who log on to your site who want to make that committment to progress for survivors who want a voice.

    However, I am not sure Paddy (or Robert) if you are aware that the Irish Government (and I have this from good authority) are presently issuing invitations to Survivors Group Leaders to attend meetings with the government from 7th June to 14th June. I don’t know if you have had an invitation Paddy (although I appreciate that you don’t Actually represent survivors) but it appears to me that survivors of institutional abuse, who are not members of groups, are being left out in the cold once more. No doubt the government see these so called leaders purporting to represent survivors the ones to talk to. I am livid with their assumption. I personally think that this is the greatest opportunity for survivvors (in Ireland) to sieze the moment and during the period of 7th June – 14th June for as many fed up survivors (who feel non-represented and indeed isolated) to picket the Dail (or wherever these meeting are being held). On mass this is a chance for us to state how we feel. As many as possible survivors need to get together with banners (with media in attendance) and vocally voice our distain and annoyance that the group leaders invited to these meetings DO NOT represent us and that we should (and demand) a say in how the money from the congregation should be spent.

    We could come up with some sort of statement (signed by all who picket and handed in to the government organising the meeting and even to the media): “The reason for the picket is that we, as survivors of institional abuse, feel isolated and left out of the talks between so called group leaders, especially when any outcome could undermine what we think. These group leaders don’t have a mandate for how I feel and do not represent many thousands of survivors who are not even aware of such meetings. We wish to have our say and will not go away until you hear us. No group leader inside the building having a meeting with the government represent me and thousands of survivors up and down the country. We would like to add that we believe that it is non-democratic and is a wrong doing for the government not to listen to survivors who have no group to represnt them and we would ask and appreciate that the government take all this into consideration.”

    We have a chance to move forward on this one Paddy. All we need is as many survivors displeased with leaders to move forward and have our say. What do you think and is it possible to get enough support in order to show the likes of John Kelly, CB, Michael O’Brien and others how we feel? I would be very shocked if the government invited M O’Brien to attend given his abusive outburst to the Toaseach back in April. I would appreciate you comments on this one. Thanks. David (UK).

  37. Paddy I am having problems trying to enter comments. it keeps coming up with that I have a javva script problem. Do you understan this?

  38. I’ve no doubt that there are people who are out there busy just trying to survive and who are frustrated with the way things are going or indeed not going. To give credibility to any petition it has to be worded in such a way that the motive behind it is clear, that is currently not the case. I’ve no doubt whatever that Rose is a very honest person just as I believe that of course you meant well. The groups will have a real laugh at us all if we can only muster three signatures. There’s no need for you to feel stupid or to feel that you’ve to check with me regarding the signing of a petition. Paddy.

  39. It seems to me Paddy as I am sure it does to you that there are so many good people who are busy surviving, who are truly frustrated and confused as to what is going on with these groups. they are just looking and hoping for a voice.
    In your honesty and understanding people see you as a fresh hope.
    But however there needs to be something written and I second that people should use their real names if they sign.
    Rose I believe is an honest person too. We meant well Paddy but three as you said would be laughed at by the groups.
    I personally feel a bit stupid signing it without checking it with you first Paddy.

  40. In brief Charles, that wording is much more in line with what a petition would be. Yes, the numbers are vital. The question is how do we get them. There is one person in Cork, claiming that he got 700 votes to represent people who were abused while in the care of religious orders. Paddy.

  41. Paddy I do hope that this is cleared up as it is far from my nature to make a shoddy work out of a question so vital for so many. Personally I would prefer the wording ” I wish to vote for Paddy Doyle to represent me etc etc.”. Observe the word vote as in a democratic election. The numbers are vital as this will empower and equip Paddy with a powerfull mandate.The moral and ethical standards of such a mandate are there for all to see and serve the purpose of revealing any totalitarian tendencies arising from indivuduals who place their personal needs to the fore at the expence of the many. Sorry for my clumsy english , I have been out of Ireland a long long time.

  42. There’s no need to explain anything about the petition. What concerned me was that the petition had my name on it. I repeat what I’ve said in other comments, I didn’t sign my name to the petition. Also missing from it was any explanation as to what people were ‘signing up to’. I’ve no problem with a petition as long as it’s properly written out and that those people who sign it do so in their own names and not in the name of other people. My own ‘signature’ of the petition was put there by someone else and not by me. If we can only manage to get three signatures on a petition, it’s going to look pretty abysmal and could indeed backfire. It could be said “You had a petition running and in three or four weeks you only got 3 signatures. That doesn’t smack of any support at all really. Does it? Paddy.

  43. Paddy, some explaining as regards the petition. Firstly it was not put up by me but I signed it as I saw it as a link on your site. I signed it in the belief that it was there with your approval. I did not instigate the petition. I agree with your remaining criticism. As a reflex I signed it out of more a wanting and frustration based on our current plight and the absence of a spokesperson with integrity and proven honesty. I do believe my postings over time on your site reflects this. Of course I should have asked you if this petition has your blessing and if not would you oblige me with one that does.

  44. The petition thing is fine with me as long as it’s properly done and has a wording that people will be able to clearly know what they are signing up to. Paddy

  45. To err is human Rose. Paddy.

  46. Is there a way Rose we can cancel our names there do you know?
    I signed it in good spirit thinking it was genuine I just wanted to get a move on instead of talking.
    Thank you Rose for informing us and clearing the air very best regards Rose from Robert

  47. Oops, I spot a couple typos in that lot. sorry.:)

  48. I submitted something earlier but am not sure if it went through. So here goes again.

    Yes there are indeed two petitions for Paddy to be our voice. It was Emer Byrne who first gave us the link which I put up last week.

    The 1st petition was set up by Mr Charles O’ Rourke a couple of weeks ago. I put my name to that petition.

    The 2nd petition was set up by Emer Byrne.

    Both petitions show, who set them up and how many signatures they have got. Maybe Charles and Emer could decide which one we sign up to?.

    Is the petition thing OK with you Paddy?

  49. Thanks for that Rose. The petition that was put up by Charles O’Rourke is just not what I would want it to be. I notice that my name is on it. How that happened I just don’t know, I certainly didn’t put it there and frankly I’d prefer if it wasn’t there. With just three signatures on the petition it does more harm than good. Also the fact that there is no proper wording as to what the petition is about doesn’t help matters and in fact discredits all of us. I’m happy to represent anyone but unless it’s all genuine and I have the numbers I will end up looking just like other groups who claim to represent people who were abused while in institutions and elsewhere. Paddy.

  50. Hi, The first petition with the heading ‘Paddy Doyle’ was set up by a Mr, Charles O’Rourke a couple of weeks ago. I signed that one. It has 3 signatures.

    The second petition headed ‘Irish Government’ was set up by Emer Byrne. It has 1 signature now. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe it was Emer who first gave us the link.

    Paddy, is this petition thing ok with you?

  51. Here is a start for me anyway Paddy i hope others write what they want to say.
    1. the groups are making decisions behind closed doors and forcing these decisions down my throat.
    2. all groups should have an independent body in every single meeting.
    1. to make sure survivors are being informed properly. that they know what they are signing as they cannot read and write mostly. thus they have full control, illegally i believe.
    2. that groups are not making decisions without the consent of survivors.
    3. every single survivor group should have forms to be handed out to every single survivor to fill in for what it is they need and if they are persuaded by the bullying tactics of any group it will be listed as a crime.
    4. survivors should have a law officer at any meetings to make sure the survivors are being heard properly and not talked down. and a recording of that meeting for fair play.
    ( the groups are using lawyers already at the expense of survivor funds for themselves. something over looked i believe. ( remember the incident at the right of place?) so when i say law office i mean NEW not the one these groups are using.
    5. there should be a independent personal office for those who wish to complain if they have not been supported properly by a group.
    6.. any person who do not want to be a member of any group should also have use of the law office for advice.
    plus a trusted spokesperson they choose to elect, with the personal/ law office for use of.
    7. all the above should be set up with the money all groups have in their possession now, not from on coming support monies.
    8. THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF MONEY THESE GROUPS HAVE SHOULD BE MADE KNOWN TO THE SURVIVORS NOW WITNESSED BY A INDEPENDENT SOLICITOR.
    9. THE MEDIA SHOULD BE ALLOWED INTO THE MEETINGS SO THEY ARE OPEN AND HONEST THIS GOES FOR THE GOVERNMENT/RELIGIOUS TOO.
    THERE IS SO MUCH I COULD WRITE ALL NIGHT SO SOMEONE PLEASE HELP HERE AND GIVE THE SPOKESPERSON SOMETHING TO STAND FOR OTHER WISE WE HAVE NOTHING TO SAY EVER.

  52. I see Mrs C.B has forgotten to tell you all that her so called abuser’s paid for her to go to college and train to become a nurse and she has the gall to whinge about the priests and nuns.

  53. The point I was trying to make Robert is that I’m not at all sure who is putting the petition online. I don’t have a problem with the petition per se, what I have a problem with is when there is nothing to say what the petition is about or who is responsible for putting it there. I appreciate your concern. Thanks. Paddy.

  54. PLEASE ANYONE WHO IS ORGANIZING A PETITION PLEASE ASK THE PERSON FIRST OTHER WISE MISTAKES ARE MADE AND CAN CAUSE CONFUSION.
    AND IT IS NOR FAIR ON THE PERSON WHO HAS NOT BEEN ASKED.
    THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE GROUPS ARE DOING.
    SORRY AGAIN PADDY I THOUGHT THIS WAS A GENUINE LINK.
    I HOPE YOU HAVE NOT BEEN OFFENDED BY THIS.
    WITH RESPECT ROBERT.

  55. Paddy after I wrote last. someone called ROSE left left a link to a petition in your name.
    because I would choose you as a spokesperson I thought it was organized as I would choose you without a doubt.
    Sorry Paddy if this has been done without your consent as I was not aware. regards Robert.

  56. Catherine. I’ve no idea what’s going on with the petitions. I found one which didn’t explain what it was about! Then I discovered that my name was on it, I didn’t sign a petition. If a petition is to be organised online it has to be properly done. Can you point me to where the two existing petitions are running and who put them in place. Thanks. Paddy.

  57. Please can anyone help there are two petition’s voting for Paddy Doyle to represent institutional abused children. Why are there two and are they combined? Catherine.

  58. Hi David its time we spoke to all survivors and inform them of the truth they do not need groupies they need their voice.
    We need the media and to let them know there are survivors who have no voice if they ignore the fact they need to speak for themselves through someone who is just a spokesperson but we need votes and now we need to give that spokesperson solid support so they can see we mean business.

  59. I have signed up for Paddy, I do not sign up easily for anyone because I have no trust in the experience I had with the Cork group.
    I KNOW FOR SURE THEY DO NOT REPRESENT SURVIVORS FOR THEY HAVE BEEN PAID TO MAKE DEALS WITH GOVERNMENT/RELIGIOUS NOT SURVIVORS.
    BECAUSE IT THEY DID REPRESENT SURVIVORS WE WOULD NOT BE WRITING ON HERE.
    We need people to finally make a stand for those who are alone without a voice
    YOU WILL NOT BE HEARD ON YOUR OWN YOU WILL BE REFERRED TO THE GROUPS IF YOU HAVE A NEED.
    Paddy has given us a voice here so lets stand by a guy who believes nothing about us without us

  60. http://www.petitions.ie vote for paddy doyle.

  61. we need votes here and very fast please survivors for once make a stand now for paddy or who ever but now. now. now. you will have no say when these groups CLAIM they are representing you.
    it is a waste of time when the horse has bolted out to then close the gate…..

    YOU OWE THIS TO YOURSELVES NO ONE ELSE.

  62. paddy or anyone do you think that these groups became recognized by the government and religious because when it comes to the time when in the future the government and religious will have the excuse to argue that they dealt with us all through our survivor groups. so if we have any questions about how we feel wronged done by, they will be clean in the eyes of the media and public because they cleared themselves by dealing with the support groups so we have to go to the support groups for any questions we may have?.
    are these groups the escape goat of the future basically and they the groups are either unaware or part of the deal being paid? when all is too late to appeal.

    will it be far too late when these so called groups sign these deals with the government and religious to do anything at all?
    if survivors do not make a stand very soon this could be the end of any hope.( as in the redress for example)

    you have been chosen by many paddy so if people want someone like you paddy to be a spokesman then should they not at least send you letters/mandate as to what they want to you to be a spokesperson for?

    i know paddy you have not received a cent from anyone as honest as we believe you are, would you or anyone chosen as a spokesperson be recognized by the government/religious as the spokesperson and talk on those who wish you to do so on their behalf who wish not to be represented by those so called groups?.

    do we have any rights to say these groups are not signing on our behalf, that any agreement signed do not do so on our behalf so we can be recognized outside of these groups before it is too late in the future.

    i ask all survivors who have any doubt to question this too. and vote for paddy doyle who i believe will not make any decision on our behalf without our consent.
    paddy if i can be of support myself i would like to stand by your side on this with my vote for you sir.
    very best regards robert

  63. It’s hard to say whether Niall Crowley would be prepared to take on such a role as that suggested by Joe Duffy on his radio programme. Though I’ve nothing to support the argument, I do believe that any appointment would have to be made by the government or alternatively voted into a representative position by people who were abused while in institutional care. Paddy.

  64. Paddy, do you think a meeting with Mr.Niall Crowley could be beneficial to us.? I too believe you can be our voice.

  65. Paddy, Sir you are more than welcome you have given survivors a great opportunity to be heard and all your hard work deserves the best reward. You are the person who deserved that award Paddy no one else.
    in my eyes your name is on that award they received. To me they received it in your name. Thanks Paddy I hope others on this site agree to the very same.
    I for one am so thankful as it helps me cope with the pressure of being ignored by someone who took that award rather than earned it.

  66. I must say that I echo Roberts last comments. Touched on many feelings of survivors who have no one to speak on their behalf.

    I really get annoyed when something important is published (Ryan Report or Murphy Report) or something that is of interest to genuine survivors published in the media only to find that the same media interview the same old faces i.e. Christine Buckly, John Kelly etc.Whenever they are interviewed (TV or Radio) they give the impression that survivors have lost the plot. They don’t speak on our behalf and indeed don’t have a mandate to represent us. It is very very frustrating to watch and hear them but, unfortunately, the media give these very people the empowerment to opinionate something that many of us disagree with. It is also frustrating that there are (secret) meetings going on in Waterford, Cork (and wherever else) that genuine survivors are not aware of let alone invited to attend. From the many comments on your site Paddy it does look like we need a new kid on the block, someone who is non-bias, fair and able to speak on behalf of others. I would be concerned (as I have mentioned previously) about the possible abuse you might receive but I also think that having suffered as much as you have that you would be pretty thick-skinned. I don’t think you are a confrontational person, in fact I believe that you would have discussions with ministers (or whoever) with decorum and dignity. The country (citizens of Ireland) need to know that not all survivors are union reps, they need to hear people (survivors) who will not talk about money (like CB and O’Brien did on Joe Duffy show), someone who is not after gain and, most importantly, someone who understands fellow survivors. I believe that person is you Paddy. And lets not forget the many thousands of survivors not living in Ireland. Here in UK we don’t get to grasp what is happening in Ireland unless we log on to your wonderful website. When we do put the TV on then it is the same faces of so-called leaders. Those same faces (CB, J Kelly etc) sometimes have not got a clue what they are talking about and always appear to be very repetitive becoming tongue-tied and forgetting the question they were asked. We need someone who will remain focused and is alert. You do have support on here Paddy (as Robert pointed out). I reckon if we voice our concerns and our distaste regard how we feel about so-called leaders purporting to represent us, to the media then there might be an opening for you. Best wishes.

  67. My Question is how many SURVIVORS Have suffered from lack of Education and poor job prospects and ended up in low paid jobs and struggled for years to survive over poor education in places like Ferryhouse,
    and looked at their own children and wished they got a better deal when they were younger as in a better education, so they would have a chance to get a proper job to properly support there family, I’ve been to counselling and through the Redress Board and got pennies, all I can say is I want no more counselling and getting to old for education. Give the money to the SURVIVORS and let them finally sort themselves out and have some comfort in life besides struggling as many have for years and some are really badly off,
    why should we have to go and answer to support groups for financial help and why should they control what we should rightfully get, some say its not all about money but I will say counselling will only go so far and many are to old for education,
    PAY IT OUT LET US DECIDE WHAT’S BEST FOR US GIVE US THE Control OF OUR OWN Destiny’s for once, I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE SPEAKING FOR ME LETS ALL ARRANGE SOMETHING AND GET OUT IN DUBLIN WITH NO SUPPORT GROUPS I BE FINALLY HEARD

  68. THANK YOU TO ROSE THAT WOMEN IS BECOMING A THORN IN EVERYONE’S SIDE. WHAT CHRISTINE BUCKLEY AND THE OTHERS ARE DOING IS A FORM OF BULLYING. SOMETHING WE SHOULD NEVER GO THROUGH AGAIN AND PROMISE OURSELVES NOT TO. WHAT SHE SAID ABOUT US NOT BEING EDUCATED ENOUGH TOO HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT TO OUR COMPENSATION IS BULLYING AGAIN. SHE IS BECOMING A VERY DANGEROUS WOMAN TO THE SURVIVORS WHO DO NOT REPEAT DON’T WANT A TRUST FUND. YOU CAN SEE NOTHING BUT GREED IN THE GROUPIES EYES. YOU GROUP LEADERS GIVE US WHAT IS RIGHTFULLY OURS AND LEAVE US SURVIVORS TO DO THE HELL WHAT WE WANT WITH OUR MUCH NEEDED COMPENSATION SO WE CAN LOOK AFTER OURSELVES IN OUR OLD AGE. ROSE IT IS A GREAT IDEA TO GO TO DUBLIN AND LOBBY THE ASLINN CENTRE UNTIL WE GET WHAT IS OURS IF WE DON’T THEN WE SHOULD TAKE THIS TO THE HIGH COURT. HOW DARE ANYONE SPEAK FOR US WHEN WE HAVEN’T EVEN MET THEM. NO MORE BULLYING SURVIVORS YOU GROUP BULLIES. NOW **** OFF.

  69. Thanks for the kind comments and for the confidence you have in me. It’s very humbling indeed. Paddy

  70. Mr. Niall Crowley is the former CEO of the Equality Authority. I had the pleasure of meeting Niall Crowley just once but apart from that I don’t know him. Paddy

  71. A ballot for everyone who has been through redress?. Joe Duffy mentioned some Niall Crowley on his show. Who is this Mr,Crowley and would he be able to help us. Do you know of him Paddy?.
    Another ‘well advertised and organised MARCH’ in Dublin?.
    Consider Doris’s suggestion up above?.

  72. on face-book when Chrissie was given the volunteer of the year prise ,she announced that she wanted a bed and breakfast place for survivors . well who is expected to pay for that and how many people is she thinking of putting up . its a mystery to me since she has never tried contact .it could be there and gone before we even know of its existence after all its happened before

  73. paddy you are a very well trust man amongst the survivors do you think you could get an interview on radio/tv we would be backing you all the way.
    this work on this site is proof enough as there are so many great ideas for change to trusting these arrogant people who have been sucked in by the religious and government thinking they have it all together.
    they have been convinced by the strongest brains of the country and church and have been led away from their cause so much they are thinking with their own problems and not that of thousands of survivors.
    the government and religious just love these groups AFTER ALL THEY ARE FEEDING THESE GROUP-LEADERS THE SAME CRAP THEY HAVE BEEN USED TO THROUGH-OUT THEIR LIVES THEY KNOW NO DIFFERENT. THEY HAVE BEEN CAUGHT UP IN THE NET OF SELF POWER FEELING THEY HAVE ACHIEVED SOMETHING BUT ALL THEY ARE DOING IS DESTROYING ALL HOPES OF THOUSANDS OF SURVIVORS.
    THEY THINK THEY HAVE THE BRAINS TO TALK ON BEHALF OF SURVIVORS BUT THEY HAVE NOT GOT HALF THE BRAIN YOU HAVE PADDY.
    MAYBE SOMEONE LIKE YOURSELF COULD GET AN INTERVIEW ABOUT THIS SITE AND MORE IF ANYTHING IT WOULD MAKE KNOWN TO OTHER SURVIVORS THAT THEY HAVE A VOICE LIKE US HERE ON THE GREATEST SITE ON BEHALF OF SURVIVORS.
    WELL DONE PADDY YOU ARE A TOWER OF STRENGTH AND MOST OF ALL AN HONEST MAN

  74. The secret meetings continue. I wish I knew when this utter face is going to continue. I agree absolutely that it’s time to stand up and be heard. Any idea’s as to how to do that Roe. Paddy.

  75. Christine Buckley stated that the religous orders had ‘decided’ to put money into trust funds. That is ABSOLUTE MADNESS. They should have NO SAY WHATSOEVER’ as to where any money goes.

  76. another meeting today?. How long is this utter farce going to continue,? It’s time to stand up and be heard.

  77. Yes Paddy – I managed to download the interview and listened to the whole 27.5 minutes of it. All I can say is that Jerry Springer must be fuming that he didn’t have CB or M O’Brien on his show, they would have had the audience booing and hissing. I can just imagine people (non-survivors) hearing this so called debate and concluding that many survivors are indulging in their own self pity and only after one thing. I do beg to wonder why Christine B kept the tape for so long and why she didn’t go to O’Brien with it in the first place and confront him in private. I thought Joe Duffy (given the circumstances) handled it quite well. I’m also intrigued as to who nominated CB and O’Brien for the Citizenship of the Year Award! I honestly believe that if the media need to speak to survivors regard any topic to do with abuse, then it is about time they spoke to people like yourself Paddy not raving looneys who act like union reps banging tables with their fist in order to get what they want or to put a point accross.

  78. OH BY THE WAY I JUST REALIZED, IT HIT HOME I THINK,
    THERE ARE NO SURVIVOR GROUPS JUST ILL MINDED LEADERS WHO CLAIM TO BE GROUPS. individuals

  79. I presume you’re sorted out on The Great Debate David? Paddy.

  80. HEY GUESS WHAT ANOTHER MEETING TODAY. THE GROUPS ARE AT IT AGAIN WITH THE GOVERNMENT.
    BUT HERE WE ARE NO MONEY BEING PAID FOR THE COUNSELLING CHRISTINE BUCKLEY IS SO PROUD OF. MMM
    I HEARD THIS SO CALLED MEETING ON THE RADIO NOT FROM THESE USELESS GROUPS THAT CLAIM TO BE REPRESENTING US. AGAIN TOO LATE TO KNOW ANYTHING IN CASE THE MEDIA GET THE TRUTH FROM SURVIVORS THEMSELVES.
    HUSH HUSH HUSH MEETINGS. JUST LIKE THE REDRESS BEING FORMED. IT IS NOW FAR TOO LATE ONCE AGAIN
    SICK SICK SICK SICK PEOPLE THE MOST DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR OF ABUSE OF THE THIRD KIND BUT WORSE AS THIS IS THE WOLF IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING.
    1. THE GOVERNMENT. 2 THE RELIGIOUS.
    AND NOW THEY BOTH FORMED THE THE CUNNING NAME OF THIRD KIND THE SURVIVOR GROUPS.
    NOTHING ABOUT US WITHOUT US “AS PADDY WOULD SAY”
    REMEMBER YOU PARASITES YOU ARE DENYING CHILDREN AND BABIES THEIR RIGHTS.
    WE NEED A SPOKESPERSON NOW, AS THESE GROUPS DO NOT REPRESENT SURVIVORS.

  81. David. In reply to the last line of your comment I offer the following: Why do we have people like this purporting to represent people who were abused while in institutional care.? They’ve no mandate, no qualifications……………….nothing that would qualify them to represent some of the most vulnerable people on the planet. With regard to the Joe Duffy show and the shouting match between Michael O’Brien and Christine Buckley, it served no purpose whatever in my view other than to make the rest of us look like a bunch of idiots. Enough is enough. Nobody has a mandate to speak on my behalf, something I’ve brought to the attention of the Taoiseach and his senior Ministers. Paddy.

  82. I wish like many other people that I could answer your question Albert. I’ve tried and tried to get answers to so many questions over the years and never succeeded. However childish it might sound it’s with a sense of regret that I have to say yet again that most of the so called ‘representative groups’ don’t even bid me the time of day. Nonetheless, I don’t lose a nights sleep over it as I feel it reflects more on them than it does on me. Paddy.

  83. Very, very good Paddy. Well appreciated

  84. Spot on there Paddy – this ‘fumbling in a greasy till’ is, to me the greed and mercenary nature of some of those who claim to represent us .. and if let get away with it they will have ‘dried the marrow from the bone’ – they will have sucked on our pain.

  85. Perhaps we should be hanging shoes on the buildings of the media, such as newspapers etc during our years in these institutions they were under the control of the church and let all the abuse go on , they get their information on sites such as this one. How come they cover Chrissie’s glory stories but not a word of criticism about the fact that we are all left out of things that concern us. We have been adults a long time now and know our needs

  86. I THINK WE SHOULD ALL MEET UP OUTSIDE THE AISLINN CENTRE AND LOBBY IT. THE SOONER THE BETTER THESE PEOPLE WHO SPEAK ON OUR BEHALF ARE TRYING TO RUSH THE COMPENSATION THROUGH SO WE ESPECIALLY IN THE UK DON’T GET A LOOK IN. SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE TO STOP THESE PEOPLE NOW. I HAVE NEVER MET ANY OF THEM EITHER HOW DARE THEY SPEAK ON MY BEHALF. THEY ARE ALL AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE TO THE REAL SURVIVORS. THE STRESS THAT THESE PEOPLE HAVE PUT UPON US OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS IS UNREAL. I WILL BE READY TO GO TO IRELAND AT ANY TIME WHAT DO YOU SAY TRUE SURVIVORS.

  87. I managed to download it and have listened to some of it. All I can say is ‘what a complete farce.’ It is no wonder that the people in the Irish Republic are getting fed up of listening to survivors when you have two idiots trying to out-shout each other and making no sense whatsoever. One thing that Mr O’Brien said at the start of the interview was “Christie Buckley thinks she was the only survivor abused as a child in the institutions” was spot on. Why do we have people like this representing survivors?

  88. Could anybody tell me what date (and time) the Joe Duffy interview took place between Michael O’Brien and CB? I can get Irish radio here in UK but very seldom listen to it. I’m wondering if I might be able to listen to the interview via the internet if I knew the date. Thanks.

  89. Andrew. Somehow or another this poem by William Butler Yates seems appropriate or perhaps I’m losing the plot. Paddy.
    What need you, being come to sense,
    But fumble in a greasy till
    And add the halfpence to the pence
    And prayer to shivering prayer, until
    You have dried the marrow from the bone?
    For men were born to pray and save:
    Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
    It’s with O’Leary in the grave.

    Yet they were of a different kind,
    The names that stilled your childish play,
    They have gone about the world like wind,
    But little time had they to pray
    For whom the hangman’s rope was spun,
    And what, God help us, could they save?
    Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
    It’s with O’Leary in the grave.

    Was it for this the wild geese spread
    The grey wing upon every tide;
    For this that all that blood was shed,
    For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
    And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
    All that delirium of the brave?
    Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
    It’s with O’Leary in the grave.

    Yet could we turn the years again,
    And call those exiles as they were
    In all their loneliness and pain,
    You’d cry, ‘Some woman’s yellow hair
    Has maddened every mother’s son’:
    They weighed so lightly what they gave.
    But let them be, they’re dead and gone,
    They’re with O’Leary in the grave.

  90. Christina’s maths is a bit skewed ,,, she says €840 for each survivor from the Religious Orders wealth submission of €110,000,000 … given that almost 15,000 victims have been to the redress board and multiplying Christina’s figure of €840 into 15,000 would mean €12,600,000 of that €110,000,000 million being distributed to 15,000 victims ….

    My question: What happens to the remaining €97,400,000 Christina ???

    There’s no way that any of this money should be handed over to so-called victims ‘representative’ groups …. this blood money – and it is blood money – is for victims ONLY and not for so-called victims ‘representative’ groups empire building.

    Christina has no problem trying to claim the ‘high moral ground’ from a fellow victim in such a public and derogatory fashion – all very reminiscent of the former moral authority on this island if you ask me who also had no problem using the airwaves to beat down on the people.

    Christina wants her voice to be the dominant voice … to fill the vacuum left by that former moral authority so to speak.

    She doesn’t speak for me or on my behalf.

    The aftermath of the Ryan Report isn’t about:

    [fumbling] in a greasy till until you have dried the marrow from the bone. (apologies to WB)

  91. we the abused should know the damage it causes as we of all people know how it hurts
    we want to stop abuse not prolong it. it is disgusting to abuse anybody no matter who they are.
    as survivors we must fight AGAINST ABUSE.
    we are not here to abuse anyone, yes there is anger but there is no need to abuse anyone.
    we all need to keep our eye on how ABUSE has destroyed lives of both the living and the dead.
    every single survivor only knows their own stories and therefore must respect everyone else and their story.
    as each and every one of us have different needs in our lives.
    two things here one is attacking a survivor in public/media and two being personal to the leader of the country gets us no where.

    THESE TWO KIND OF ACTIONS ARE JUST FINE EXAMPLES OF DESTROYING ANY HOPE FOR SURVIVORS AND THEIR FAMILIES.

    CHRISTINE BUCKLEY NOTHING PERSONAL BUT PLEASE STEP DOWN NOW AND FIND OUT WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE A NOBODY LABELED SURVIVOR SEE THE DAMAGE YOU ARE DOING TO US ALL.
    MICHAEL YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE OUT THERE WE ARE THOUSANDS WHO SUFFER REMEMBER THIS WHEN YOU LOOSE IT.

  92. I’m certainly all too aware of the damage that is being done not just between Mr. O’Brien and Ms. Buckley. The kind of shouting and interruptions we heard on the radio the other day serve no purpose other that to make people who were abused look like a rabble who can only shout. I don’t want to be part of that.

    I don’t agree with your comment that Michael O’Brien was right to walk out of the meeting on April 15th he made no useful contribution to that meeting by taking that action or by calling the Taoiseach a “gobshite” What sort of impression does that leave not just of Mr. O’Brien but of all of us who were abused while in the care or religious orders? Need I say more. I wouldn’t listen to anyone who abused or insulted me. Would you? It’s my view, expressed at that meeting on the 15th of April that there was/is a real danger of the abused becoming the abusers. That is the last thing we want I’m sure. Paddy.

  93. Thank you everyone for the issues raised here. But has anyone thought of the damage that is being done to surviviors by all of this ugly stuff that is being thrown about. As I already stated on this site, there is already an education and counselling fund in place which will probably never be fully spent. Most survivors have gone through a counselling process. They have had their confidence beat out of them as children growing up in these institutions and will probably never be able or want to return to education. If they do want to they do not need an education fund to do so as there are plenty of courses available through VECs etc that they can avail of. I agree with Patrick that Christine Buckley is a well paid position and appears that she is using this newspaper article to discredit Michael O’Brien who has done nothing wrong except to fight for survivors who have not felt able to do so themselves. Michael O’Brien was in my opinion right to walk out of that meeting and I feel that if the other people present had done likewise then Brian Cowen might be more inclined to listen to the needs of survivors.

  94. both paddy and david do make sense who ever becomes a spokesperson would be open to abuse, but paddy i believe is far much stronger than letting so called groups effect him.
    or any kind of abuse. the main goal here is those who have no voice or feel even feel they are not being heard.
    this is most sertainly not about playing mind games as some groups we know do so very well.
    its about those who need the proper support they deserve.
    paddy has not stated once he wants to be a speaker he is getting the support he so well deserves.
    as this website is the great example of the views of ANYONE who wishes to express their feelings.
    NOPE NO GROUP LEADERS HERE YET WHY I WONDER.
    THEY HAVE AN OPEN SITE LIKE PADDY TOO?
    ANSWER NOT A HOPE IN HELL THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN SURVIVORS VIEWS ONLY THEIR OWN.

  95. Spot on David, I don’t suffer fools gladly nor should I be expected to irrespective of what walk of life they come from. There can be no doubt whatever that Michael O’Brien’s attitude to the Taoiseach was reprehensible and it is to the credit of the Brian Cowen that he held his composure.

    David, I’m all to aware that I’d have to take a lot of abuse from some elements within the existing so called ‘representative groups’ that would try to discredit me as I’d be perceived as trying to ‘steal their thunder’. I can do without a situation where the abused might become the abusers. Thanks for your confidence in me David, I appreciate it and thank you for same. Paddy.

  96. Patrick you say that you will go on hunger strike with Michael O’Brien if it comes to that. But can I ask, what exactly do you hope a hunger strike will achieve? What is the purpose? I’m sorry to have to say this, but going on hunger strike is a bit like throwing the dummy out of the pram. Mr O’Brien insulted the Taoiseach showing him no respect and because he didn’t like hearing what the Taoiseach had to say he (O’Brien) decided to storm out of the meeting. I certainly wouldn’t want someone with that sort of temperment to represent me nor do I think they should be leader of a survivors group.

    Paddy has (it appears) a lot more dignity and I believe he (Paddy) would brilliantly represent survivors should he have the desire to do so and with the support of many survivors. However I would add caution and advise Paddy against representing survivors. This is not because I think Paddy is incapable but I would be more concerned about the abuse he would receive from others who would then, most probably, start casting aspersions about his character and accuse him of making money out of his role as leader of survivors. You are an inspiration to us all Paddy and your website offers comfort and a wealth of information that many survivors would not know otherwise about, but (and I say this with the upmost respect) do tread very carefully. And I appreciate that you (Paddy) don’t suffer fools gladly.

  97. As far as I know Michael O’Brien has been asked to hold off hunger strike as someone high up try to sort something out..I’ve told O’Brian I’ll go on hunger strike with him if it comes to that..thanks Robert for your post..I do think we need someone to stand for us. You say Paddy should. why cant both Paddy and Michael sit down and talk and see if they can agree on a mandate.

  98. this return to our childhood has brought up all the pain once again and is affecting some very seriously indeed.
    that redress, education, counselling and Bernardo’s are not sufficient.
    like it was said who the feck will give us jobs who are well over the hill, messed up, confused, angry, frustrated,abused in every way.
    We are so old in the teeth even counselling just rubs of us.
    We owe Christine Buckley NOTHING she owes us big time as do the Right of Place in Cork.
    they are very proud of the redress education and counselling yet these very people left out the main ingredient “((CHILDREN))” UNDER AGE FOR THE ABOVE they are so fecken proud of.

    THERE IS MORE TO HUMANITY THAN A FEW PENNIES THAT WERE THROWN IN OUR FACES.
    .

  99. Patrick
    I hear you man but as it was said here before to my views on a walk into the capital to government house we would be lucky to get enough survivors to make a stand to finally end this most painful argument.
    We all need a date, a place and a time to meet to walk against the groups who have just let us all down.
    a trusted spokesperson to lead it as that would take some one who has the guts and know how.
    but a mandate to be signed by all to agree to the spokesperson.
    I believe this person would be Paddy Doyle or someone like him. To air our views to the media, the government and religious. this can be done there and then so he is chosen in public view.
    this signing for the spokesman can be done in full view of the public and media.
    IT WILL BE THE OPEN STATEMENT TO THE WORLD HOW WE THE SURVIVORS ARE NOT HAPPY AT ALL THE WAY WE HAVE BEEN TREATED.
    BY SIGNING THIS SPOKESPERSON WE HAVE MADE A DEFINITE STATEMENT WE WANT RID OF GROUPS CONTROLLING OUR LIVES AND THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD DEAL WITH US DIRECTLY VIA OUR SPOKESPERSON.
    NOTHING ABOUT US WITHOUT US AS PADDY SAID SO WELL
    AND PATRICK WELL SAID TOO REGARDS ROBERT

  100. I know most people will not agree with me, but, as far as I’m concerned. MOST adults who were systematically abused and violated as children – as were the VAST MAJORITY of Irish people born to parents and/or raised by guardians who were brainwashed adherents of Holy Catholic Ireland – inevitably do become abusers of children (and vulnerable adults) not realising that they are, in fact, dehumanised adults themselves.

    They may mean well, but being of ‘Good Intentions’ is not the same as being psychologically able to be of any REAL benefit to Humanity.

    I have met quite a few adults who were institutionalised as children and whilst many of them are quite brilliant intellectually, they are sadly lacking in Humanity; that’s because they were totally deprived of a normal childhood.

    All the best counselling in the world cannot restore that loss.

    based on my own personal experience as an adult, a mother and soon to be grand-mother – not least as one who has survived the NORMALISED abuse and violation of children of Holy Catholic Ireland

  101. Small correction David! I was at the meeting that Michael O’Brien announced his intention to go on hunger strike. He said it almost before the meeting started and then stormed out having insulted the Taoiseach. Since then I haven’t heard anything about Michael O’Brien’s promised hunger strike. Paddy.

  102. Albert, there are many questions that require answers. I wish I had those answers. I’ve no idea who sits on the Education Finance Board. What would concern me is that there might be people on the Board whose position on the Board could bring about a conflict of interest situation.

  103. Can I just update you on the famous interview on Joe Duffy show today between Christine Buckley and Michael o’Brien..O Brien let her talk but every-time Michael talked he was shot down by her. You can go on and hear this debate..I pray in Gods name that survivors will wake up and see whose on our side and whose out for themselves. In this battle..that newspaper story was nothing short of a attack to take Michael O Brien out of the face so that Christine Buckley can have what she craves most of all ..THE LIMELIGHT..I’m a man that’s spent 5 years in counselling f0r abuse and from t i can see very clearly a person whose not dealing with the past issues..and as a result of that they need to be in control of everything and that’s what sadly your putting your trust in with someone like Christine…what we need is a brave-heart type person..one who you just no in your heart of hearts hes fighting for the real thing..for the people not the glory..my heart tells me that man is Michael O’ Brien .Let me end by saying something personal. Something that means a lot to me at this time cutting true all the red tape…I’ve talked to many many survivors of abuse they all tell me they don’t want this money controlled by groups they want it given to them and then they want this story to end there.what will it take to get that.what would anyone give to get that for survivors. I feel it may go as far as a hunger strike and I’m willing to go that far to win this for the survivors..I want nothing for myself..let the talkers talk away ..we need men real men who will stand out the extra mile to end this story the right way.

  104. Christine , I grew up alongside you in Goldenbridge. What gives you the right to judge other peoples way of dealing with things. This man had a well paid job. Politicians do have the need to protect their lives. So have you. Otherwise you would not be there, if we were at all respected there would be contact between us all, instead all you do is stonewall us, who needs who ask yourself

  105. I’m just curious as to what happened to Mr O’Briens hunger strike! (I believe it was him who said after the meeting with government that he was going on Hunger Strike).

  106. Well I totally agree with Robert I’m totally fed up with these support groups,they do nothing to help victims. I have had counselling in the past and found it no help . Now if I could speak for myself I would say all survivors should be given what’s rightfully theirs and let them chose for themselves what they want its about time that people listened to what we have to say ,instead of everyone else making decisions for us . and you Christine of all people should understand shame on you .

  107. Educate us for what? There are jobs out there for us? Employers will ignore our ages? The religious congregations are sorry and really do care about us? The government is listening to what we say, and really do give a hoot?…………AND PIGS MIGHT FLY TOO.

  108. Well I’ve had a chat with Mr. O Brien and before I did. I read the above story a right away I saw something I never saw before,,,Why did Christine Buckley land this now, why now? Why are 1 in 4 wanting the same. Would it be that if Mr O’ Brien got survivors the cash into their own hands groups like c b and 1 in 4 would be out of work and out of pocket…that’s what’s behind c b going to the paper..people are trying to stop mr o Brien getting us what’s ours…Christine Buckley are out for themselves and to keep their groups well supported into the future…she can try black list Mr O’ Brien all she wants but her timing proves her motive is to stop the man whose after noting for himself…can the same be said of 1 and 4 and Christine Buckley. I don’t think so

  109. as regard to education a lot of people are living in far remote places on their own or struggling with family issues, near retirement, and complications. many, more than you would ever know do not want education as it reminds them of the past. that is a large area to cover in itself.
    counselling well it is harder to think on how many years some of us tried this but due to life’s complications the counselling are not there to deal with.
    for some going back in their minds of the abuse makes them worse etc etc.
    these issues and so many more, you groups have not even scratched at the surface.
    as for Bernardo’s they are great people but there is a lot of hurt with this area and that if families need to meet up then that costs a lot of money too. how much? no one knows.
    you must stop and think how you groups are actually destroying any hope for survivors as individuals with individual needs.
    Paddy Doyle has allowed us here to express our views and if you read them you may even get some kind of idea how survivors are hurting. with the finger pointed straight at you groups for not caring.
    we are living people with children and i have noticed some leaders have no children of their own to understand anything on the difficulties there alone, education and counselling fees do not cover these issues.
    why has this not even been mentioned in your statement?
    I was disgusted you actually overlooked this very issue regarding children I have never heard once on how to support survivors AND their children some are BABIES
    how much does it cost to bring up children? especially when there is no other members of family to support like mainstream families who have been supportive to each other.
    most survivors are struggling alone
    so please back off and think again before our children you are supposed to be protecting loose out. when you make deals with the government and religious.

  110. christine
    WE SURVIVORS HAVE ALL DIFFERENT NEEDS ITS NOT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.
    “BUT” IT TAKES MONEY THESE DAYS TO SUPPORT THOSE WHO HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS.
    THERE ARE A LOT OF SURVIVORS OUT HERE MOST WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN HEARD BY YOUR GROUPS.
    SO HOW CAN YOU SAY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
    HOW DO YOU AND OTHERS POSSIBLE KNOW THE PRICE OF SUPPORT FOR SURVIVORS ESPECIALLY WHEN NONE OF YOU UNDERSTAND THE SUFFERING OF OTHERS OTHER THAN YOUR OWN STORIES.
    WHY ARE YOU GROUPS ASKING SURVIVORS TO BACK YOU UP ON YOUR IDEAS.
    IT IS THE NEEDS OF THE SURVIVORS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO UNDERSTAND AND FOR YOU TO STAND BY THEM.
    MOST SURVIVORS FEEL BETRAYED ON THIS SITE NEGLECTED CAST-ASIDE, AS YOU PEOPLE MAKE DECISIONS FOR YOURSELVES BY YOURSELVES.
    YOU ARE DOING FAR MORE DAMAGE THAN YOU KNOW
    ITS WRONG WHAT YOU GROUPS ARE DOING PLEASE STOP AS IT IS VERY OFFENSIVE AND EXTREMELY HURTFUL WITH A SENSE OF BETRAYAL.
    YOU ARE NOT LIVING OTHER PEOPLES LIVES SO PLEASE DO NOT JUDGE THEIR CRIES FOR HELP. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT BUT ONLY TO UNDERSTAND THEY NEED THAT SAME SUPPORT AND TREATMENT YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN YOURSELVES BY OTHERS.
    THIS SITE HOLDS MORE TRUTH AND CONCERN FOR SURVIVORS AND THE FUTURE OF CHILDREN THAN ANY GROUP THAT EVER HAS BEEN FORMED OR FOUNDED.
    SO PLEASE STOP PLAYING WITH PEOPLE’S LIVES..

  111. “How can we have people stating that they’re entitled to this money, when the same people do not see the importance of education and counselling, and the Barnardos tracing service for example?” Buckley said.
    They believe it is far preferable for education, health, housing and other counselling services to be provided on an “as needed” basis to the tens of thousands of survivors both in Ireland and abroad, regardless of whether they went before the Redress board.???????????
    please explain someone

  112. The Clonmel windbag now says he didn’t want his family to know that he had been sexually abused at a certain time which I can understand. What is quite incomprehensible is the extraordinary denial that he was abused or knew or ever heard of abuse and his stout defence of the abusive religious order in that interview from ten years ago.
    Whilst silence would have been understandable that is not what he did. The Clonmel windbag has been found out for a double talking weasel. What we now need to know is how much money he received over the past ten years from his local VEC/the Church and religious orders to run a fictional office in Clonmel.
    In the meantime he should give back all those public awards received under false pretences.
    And he should apologise to the genuine survivors and to the good people of Ireland too who were taken in by his expert manipulation of misplaced emotional empathy. In today’s Tribune Michael O’Brien talks of bad eggs in every organisation – The Clonmel windbag is a real stinker to be sure. We all owe Christine Buckley a great deal of gratitude for exposing this.

  113. Michael O’Brien shook the Government out of its complacency post-Ryan with his stunning intervention on Questions & Answers. [ Coincidentally Questions & Answers was soon taken off the air.]

    I remember in the early-70s talking to a Fianna Fail TD (and Minster in the Government) in his constituency office about my experiences with the Sisters of Charity and the Rosminians, to name only a couple, and this TD, who had fought the British Empire and won some kind of a victory, didn’t want to know. It appeared he had no problem putting his life on the line against the ‘armoured cars and tanks and guns’ of the British Empire but was afraid to face the spiteful and hateful violence of the men and women in skirts.

    That’s politicians for ya.

    I believe Michael was still wedded to those kind of ‘politics’ when he gave that radio interview – indeed it was only at the last meeting with the government that he divorced himself from Fianna Fail and it’s long, long history of corruption and collusion with the dark forces that abused us.

    It was only this week that I actually discovered that Fianna Fail were THE Government throughout my 13 years of incarceration – a Guest of the Nation if you will !

    Can I take it now that Michael has left the Dark Side and is now embracing the light? Could he now use his political experience and clout on behalf of child protection today – particularly in highlighting the fact that the abusing Religious Orders – who abused him and me and all of us – are still working with vulnerable communities!?!

    Or is this a battle to far for Michael?

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