Following a meeting of it’s members, ‘Let Our Voices Emerge’ have decided to give their wholehearted support to those Survivors of Institutional abuse who are now calling on the State to appoint an independent spokesperson for them.They state that the present group leaders were not elected by them, and they fear their concerns and opinions re the compensation schemes are not being listened to.

After the Taoiseachs apology in 1999 approximately eight different groups emerged, all getting an inordinate amount of State funding to support survivors. Friction over leaderships and finances ensured then as it does now – that the groups stay separate and many Survivors who have spoken to us state they feel no sense of cohesion in their struggle for help and justice. Many state that there is no democratically elected single leader to represent them, and they fear the compensation from the Religious/ State coffers will not be dealt with effectively. Following the meeting last April with the Taoiseach which descended in to name calling and fighting amongst the various group leaders, they fear the loss of public support should this continue.

‘Voicesemerge’ formed in 2002 and though we are a registered charity we have never received State funding. Our purpose, as ex inmates of the Industrial schools was to support those managers/inmates whom we felt were being accused unjustly for compensation in the Redress Board. Many of our own members- themselves abused, some viciously, were not willing to see an innocent nuns/brothers/inmates brought down in the search for justice.

Back in 2003 we requested that the State appoint an independent representative for all of the Survivors instead of funding so many groups individually. This provoked an outcry from the groups.We also asked that the State audit the individual groups, again (except for Ashlinn), there was outrage.

To achieve justice for so many Survivors a State representative must be appointed.

Florence Horsman Hogan
‘Let Our Voices Emerge’

 

77 Responses to “An Independent State Appointed Representative imperative for Abuse Survivors”

  1. what do we want , well i have sisters and brothers that i have only met when i go to see them, what i want is to be able to invite them have enough space for them to sleep , and get to know them better . as it is i suppose that many other survivers to live in bed sitters, a lonely life.

  2. Mossie says:

    WHAT EACH OF US SURVIVORS NEED TO DO, AND NEED TO DO RIGHT NOW IS TO, WRITE PERSONALLY TO WHAT EVER GROUP SUPPOSEDLY REPRESENTS YOU, OR WHAT EVER GROUP YOU SIGNED UP WITH, AND PERSONALLY TELL THEM, ( DONT ASK THEM ) TELL THEM, THAT YOU WISH TO HAVE YOUR NAME, AND ALL PERSONAL DETAILS THEY HAVE ON THEIR DATA BASE REMOVED AT ONCE, BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT THEY GIVE TO THE HSE WHEN THEY ARE LOOKING FOR THE FUNDS TO RUN THEIR GROUPS.

    WITHOUT YOUR NAME, AND PERSONAL DETAILS, THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO RECEIVE THEIR FUNDS AND SUPPORT FROM THE HSE. I URGE EVERYONE TO DO THIS RIGHT NOW.

    OUR NAMES ARE BEING USED BY THESE PARASITES TO OBTAIN FUNDING FOR THEIR ILL GAINED NEEDS, AND ITS ABOUT TIME IT STOPPED. WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION, THESE SWINDLERS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SURVIVE, AND ITS THE BEST WAY OF CUTTING OFF THEIR CASH FLOW.

    BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE ONLY THING THAT MONEY THEY ARE RECEIVING IS BEING USED FOR IS TO FUND THESE GREEDY PARASITES, AND THE LOVELY LIFESTYLES THEY LEAD.

    ASK YOURSELVES, WHAT HAVE THEY DONE FOR YOU? ARE THEY MEETING YOUR NEEDS? HAVE THEY HELPED YOU IN ANY WAY WHAT SO EVER?

    I’M SURE THE MAJORITY OF SURVIVORS WILL FIND THAT ( NO ) WILL BE THE ANSWER TO ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS. \

    YOU THE SURVIVOR, CAN PUT A STOP ( NOW ) TO ALL OF THIS, BY WRITING PERSONALLY, NOW TO THESE PARASITES WHO ( SUPPOSEDLY ) REPRESENT YOU, AND ( DEMAND ) TO HAVE YOUR DETAILS REMOVED FROM THEIR DATA BASE, AND ALSO A SIGNED LETTER TO THE EFFECT THAT IS HAS BEEN DONE, SO YOU WILL HAVE A COMEBACK IN THE FUTURE, IN CASE THEY CONTINUE TO USE YOUR DETAILS FOR FUTURE FUNDING.

    I MYSELF PERSONALLY, WILL BE DOING THIS RIGHT AWAY TODAY, TO THE SO CALLED ( RIGHT OF PLACE OFFICES ).

    TIME TO ACT, NOW, AND STAND UP FOR OURSELVES, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

  3. billy says:

    I WOULD CONCUR WITH BERNADETTE,SHE IS RIGHT
    OUR ONLY HOPE IS TO GET SOMEONE WHO WILL
    REPESENT US IN THE EUROPEN COURT OF JUSTICE,FORGET ALL OUR SO CALLED REPS MOST OF
    THEM ARE PARISITES,(NOT ALL OF THEM)IM TALKING ABOUT BUCKLEY BARRY TRENAIR AND OTHERS.IS THERE ANY BARRISTER OR SOLICITOR WHO WOULD REPESENT US AFTER ALL THEY MADE A LOT OF MONEY OUT OF US.REMEMBER BIFFO IS PUTTING HIS PROPOSAL TO THE DAIL WHEN THE SITS AFTER THEIR SUMMER BREAK, ONCE THAT IS DONE WE CAN FORGET ABOUT EVER GETTING JUSTICE.FOR GODS SAKE SURVIVERS WAKE UP DONT
    JUST SIT THER AND DO NOTHING, LET OUR VOICES
    BE HEARD.LOBBY YOUR TDS SPEAK OUT LET THEM KNOW OUR HURT AND FEELINGS.ONLY FOR THIS WEBSITE WE WOULD KNOW NOTHING (THAT SHOULD TELL YOU THE KIND OF REPS WE HAVE) THEY ARE ABUSING US TO HOLD ON TO THEIR COSY JOBS
    AND PERKS, GIVE A GUESS WHO WILL BE IN CHARGE OF THE TRUST FUND!!!MAY THEY ALL ROT IN HELL!!!!!

  4. bernadette cook says:

    ps perhaps we should also mention that we all have crimial records tha need exponging by ireland !

  5. bernadette cook says:

    hi every one what about writing to the european union brussells ? see how legal this deal they are trying to do is i am writing to them or send them a email ? i will post their address and email tomorrow we have rights after all ! and its time we all had a voice if we all email or write then there will be power in numbers ,even get our children to write explaing that what they are doing is taking what the church put in the pot for us they want control of i for one have been silenced enough and will have my say ! did anyone hear live line with christine buckley and o,brian , as a lady said on the show she does not speak for us ! enough of them buggars ! these people do not know us so how can they know what we think want or need ? an end to it all simple pay out and let us the survivors use what is left of our lives and money on what we need with out going cap in hand to a begging bowl its all about control! well they dont control me anymore ,no other country in the world has done this to its survivors so wake up ireland and do the right thing by us !!

  6. Paddy says:

    Thank you for your very kind comments, I appreciate them. Paddy.

  7. Granny1 says:

    Hi Paddy, Just read your book, You are a real Survivor , it is amazing and a miracle That you survived at all, My heart goes out to you ‘ After all you have suffered and been through Here you are helping other survivors . Thank you Paddy . You really are an Angel.

  8. Granny1 says:

    It is time now to get rid of Buckley, Barry, Treanor, Waters,and Bent Lawyers ,They must be made to open their books + we should all know how much each recieved in wages + PERKS from the Government and The Religious ,very clever >/Divide and Rule applied in this case. Every Survivors Name that they have on their books must be open for all to see.I am Inrerested to know WHAT is the strange story about Avoca House I smell a Huge rat there ,??? what happened to the Large funding the Waters recieved for Avoca House . DID MRS WATERS +Mr Waters, Is he a Survivors of Detention as a young baby or child into a Industrial child Prison ?? BUY IT WITH OUR MONEY??????was it 3 million euro’s ????or less.I was told years ago that the Avoca House was owned by MR QUINN >is that true we are not told anything and have every right to know ,There has been Coruption at every corner while the REAL survivors have been BULLIED into silence We want our rightful Compansation NOW into Our own accounts and Not into some Government Lawyers Account. if anyone of those self appointed so called group leaders interfear ,or have been having secret meetings with the Government or Religious orders about our compansation then THEY ARE COMMITING A CRIMINAL OFFENCE. also no doubt they claim expenses for these meetings . TO BULLIES OUT THERE IT IS TIME TO STOP BULLYING OLDER SURVIVORS WHO WERE SENTENCED TO DETENTION by the CRINIMAL COURT AS BABIES AND YOUNG CHILDREN < < WE ARE THE REAL SURVIVORS.

  9. Mossie says:

    CORRECT ROBERT. I ATTENDED THAT SAID MEETING LAST FRIDAY, AND I TELL YOU IT WAS A BLOODY DISGRACE. WE WERE DICTATED TO BY SOME BARRISTER, PUT THERE BY THE HSE TO TELL US WHAT TO DO. OUR DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED PRO, CHRISTY HEAPHY MADE SEVERAL ATTEMPTS TO SPEAK, BUT WAS SHOUTED DOWN BY THE SO CALLED COMMITTEE SITTING ON THE TOP TABLE, UNDER THE COMMAND OF MR BARRYS LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE, MOUTHPIECE TREANOR.

    HE WAS NOT ELECTED TO SPEAK ON OUR BEHALF. THERE WAS NO SIGN OF MR BARRY WHO SEEMS TO BE HIDING SOMEWHERE FOR THE PAST WHILE, IN CASE SOMEONE ASKS HIM A QUESTION, ON WHERE HE SQUANDERED ALL THE MONITORY FUNDING HE RECEIVED.

    ITS TIME TO DISBAND THE WHOLE BLOODY LOT OF THEM, AND NOW. THEY ARE OUT TO LINE THEIR OWN POCKETS, AND NO MORE. TIME NOW TO GET RID OF BARRY AND TREANOR.

  10. billy says:

    THANK GOD FOR YOUR WEB SITE PADDY,AT LAST SURVIVERS ARE STANDING UP FOR THEMSELVES.LET
    EVERYONE OF US SHOW OUR DISCUST WITH ALL GROUPS AND REPS BY SHOUTING FROM THE HIGHEST MOUNTAIN OUR VIEWS AND WHAT WE THINK OF THESE PARASITES,
    WE CAN NOT ALLOW THEM TO ROB US OF OUR RIGHTS
    TO FEATHER THEIR NESTS AND SWINDLE US ANY MORE. WHERE ARE THE GOVERNMENT!HOW BLIND CAN THEY BE,WHAT ABOUT ALL THE PROMISES THEY MADE
    THAT WE WOULD NEVER AGAIN BE ABUSED,(WHEN WE WERE YOUNG WE COULD NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO US)NOW IT HURTS A LOT MORE
    KNOWING THAT OUR OWN ARE ABUSING US NOW.
    ALL OF THE GROUPS SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN AND THE LEADERS BE MADE ACCOUNTABLE FOR EVERY CENT THEY GOT.MOST OF US ARE OLD NOW WE WENT THROUGH ENOUGH,LETS ALL STAND TOGETHER AND
    END THIS DEBACLE NOW.ABUSED LET YOUR VOICE BE
    HEARD NON BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!

  11. crispina says:

    (tongue in cheeck from Dutchville, so please donot shoot before I could contact them!)

    Victim Support Europe
    http://www.victimsupporteurope.eu/about/member-organisations/

    Irish Tourist Assistance Service
    http://www.itas.ie

    as well as

    Crime Victims Helpline
    Associate member
    http://www.crimevictimshelpline.ie

    Commission for the Support of Victims of Crime
    Associate member
    http://www.justice.ie

    So, other than the reminder cursing is a sin, what could possibly be your problem? ;-)

  12. crispina says:

    As always along with the best wishes for a great day from Amsterdam:

    Anyone of you heard about this already?
    If not, thought you might be interested in as well.

    source:http://assembly.coe.int/ASP/NewsManager/EMB_NewsManagerView.asp?ID=5683

    Child abuse in institutions:
    PACE’s Social Committee to hold a hearing

    Strasbourg, 21.06.2010 – Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly’s (PACE) Committee on Social Affairs is to hold tomorrow, 22 June, in Strasbourg, a Hearing on “Child abuse in institutions: ensuring full protection of the victims”, in the framework of the preparation of a report on the subject by Marlene Rupprecht (Germany, SOC).

    The hearing, which is open to the press, will take place from 8.30 a.m. to 10 a.m. in the Palais de l’Europe (Room 1).

    Participants include

    Massimo Introvigne, Sociologist (Vatican City) ;

    Marian Shanley, Member of the Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse (Ireland);

    Christine Bergmann, Special Representative on Cases of Child Abuse (Germany) and

    Helgard Van Hüllen, Member of the Executive Board of Victim Support Europe (Germany).

    According to the motion for a resolution, considering accounts of physical and sexual child abuse occurring within residential facilities, boarding schools, churches and other institutional settings, it is regrettable regret that “the needs of the victims of this abuse have often been disregarded” both in the past and in the present. European Governments should ensure that “any case of child abuse is subject to their criminal law system, and that perpetrators are prosecuted and all victims (and also whistleblowers) receive the same protection regardless of the institutional setting in which the crime was committed”.

    Doc. 12238

    4 May 2010

    Child abuse in institutions: ensure full protection of the victims

    Motion for a Resolution

    presented by Mr Omtzigt and others

    This motion has not been discussed in the Assembly and commits only the members who have signed it

    for motion
    see

    http://assembly.coe.int/Main.asp?link=/Documents/WorkingDocs/Doc10/eDOC12238.htm

  13. hello patrick Iam delighted that you have decided to stay with us, have a nice plate of chips ,

  14. anne says:

    Dear Rose, Granny, Dorris, Pat, Robert…..

    There will be investigations into most if not all funded Groups E.C.T Your absolutely correct in saying they should be shut down with immediate affect.
    They haven’t served their purpose and cannot prove otherwise. This is why I have been informed Legally that any survivor has a right to challenge any Group/Organisations and if necessary Sue them.

    The Government needs to take appropriate action and fast. There are too many survivors who are in dire need of financial assistance and this is absolutely shamefull that they are letting this happen to their own people.

    I am quite happy today as I have received a positive letter from a very well known(worldwide Irish singer..) one of the best in the world.(His band ) I’m sure we will be heard as he is absolutely disgusted with what is going..I shall explain more this week.

    Kind regards, take care all..

    Anne

  15. patrick.bentley says:

    Well Anne I think your dead right I wont need to go on any hunger strike..I’m under weight as it is…this will be sorted by legal people and we will win and get justice…I agree all groups should be closed down..we don’t want or need them..

  16. rose says:

    Yes another meeting in cork on the 17th and I didn’t out about it on the 20th. Right of place have my name and address yet they didn’t inform me of this meeting. I will be on the phone to them tomorrow wanting an answer as to why I wasn’t informed. Yes, disband the groups. they are doing nothing for the majority of survivors.

  17. robert says:

    survivors have suffered in those schools they are the people of ireland the families of ireland something these groups never think of is the welfare of the poorest of the poor i am so sick of greedy people missing the point as paddy doyle said its NOT ALL ABOUT MONEY its about the welfare of every single survivor.
    the point these groups never mentioned is the welfare and care of these poor people who are suffering now due to the ABUSE AND NEGLECT at the hands of this government who threw is unto the filthy garbage boxes of the religious systems. now the welfare has been gillatined slashed to pieces and no safety net for the welfare of all survivors 15000 only. dental funds slashed two fillings and a checkup is all you are intitled to a year.
    hey where were the dentests in the schools most survivors teeth are rotten due to the early days of this abuse.
    sorry but these groups are just not doing a thing about this.
    THE STATE IS RESPOSIBLE FOR THE HEALTH OF SURVIVORS AND NOW THEY ARE DOING IT AGAIN.
    FINNA FAIL OUT OUT OUT NOW GROUPS OUT NOW.
    WE WANT OUR HUMAN RIGHTS NOW.
    these groups should be sending out the letters of what they have achieved for survivors health and welfare but they have
    NOT ACHIEVED ANYTHING FOR SURVIVORS TO DATE SO HOW CAN THEY?
    the costs of running these groups are the only letters we got and they never added up. that money they got paid for doing nothing could have paid for the health and welfare of many survivors. now there are more who want the jobs for the money.
    please vote to close all groups now.

  18. robert says:

    RIGHT OF PLACE ARE HOLDING A MEETING IN CORK
    TOMORROW EVENING IN THE METREPOLE HOTEL AT
    7-30 PM thanking billy collins for this news.

    well billy this group have just proven they have no idea of what they are doing its a fecken dissgrace over and over again.
    what have they done wrong here?
    THE VERY SAME TREASON TO SURVIVORS AND THEIR PAIN THEY HAVE TOTALLY IGNORED THE SURVIVORS RIGHTS ONCE MORE TO THEIR SHAME.
    NO PUBLICITY NO ADVERTISING IN THE MEDIA, BY THE WAY THE MEDIA ARE NEVER INVITED.
    SO HOW THE HELL CAN SURVIVORS AND THE WORLD KNOW OF THIS MOST STUPID MEETING.
    CLOSE THESE GROUPS DOWN NOW THEY HAVE COST FAR TOO MUCH MONEY FOR NOTHING THEIR WALLETS ARE JUST GETTING BIGGER WITH SELF GREED.
    NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT THESE MEETINGS TO HOLD SUCH A MEETING THE MEDIA SHOULD BROADCAST IT ON RADIO AND TV.
    BUT IN CASE THEY ARE ASKED WHAT ARE THEY ACTUALLY DOING FOR SURVIVORS THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING AT ALL ONLY SUPPORTED THEIR OWN CAREERS.
    WHAT A LOAD OF SHEER HORSE SHIT IT STINKS.

  19. Granny1 says:

    Dorris and Anne, You are so right The real survivors of Child Prisons have been pushed aside ,Bullied ,and threatened into silence with heavy fines and IMPRISONMENT if we dare to speak out , I had to turn to the Salvation Army to trace members of my family because NONE of the so called services for survivors were INTERESTED in helping us at all, NO help in any way was forthcoming .I was also in contact with an American Agency tracing service who were NOT connected to Ireland nor survivors in any way , I have had Nothing nor had any help nor USED any of those so called services who get large funding in OUR NAME , My Name should NOT be on any of their Lists ,I know of others who prefer NOT to have any contact whatsoever with any so called services they know it is all a CON for more funding. The Irish Government should have nothing at all to do with OUR COMPENSATION nor should any so called Group Leaders like Buckley and the others thay only look after themselves and their close friends which can only be few. We know of older survivor who was literally bullied out of Ireland , We must be paid what is rightfully ours to each Survivor or if deceased to our families , NO ONE has any LEGAL right to take it upon themselves to to hold secret meetings with the government on what to do with survivors compensation, THAT IS ILLEGAL< Well done all of you on this site .Each so called Group leader should publish on this site all the names of survivors that they claim funding for .Their Books should be made open as to how much financial funding they have received so far , What they spent ,On What,

  20. Anne says:

    Dear Dorris,

    Thankyou for your warm words and understanding.

    You are right in saying it is illegal to do what they, have/are doing. You are absolutely correct in saying that this could be took to The Courts Of Human Rights also.

    There seems to be alot of people confused out there in regards to Solicitor’s/Barrister’s E.C.T getting mixed up with negative information in regards to further compensation from The Redress Board.
    However, here in England the advice we have been given is to the contrary, you see this compensation would not be coming from the Redress Board but direct contributions from The Religious, or so it should be. And has been recorded/stated on many occassions.

    What I have been advised is that if the Government were to go ahead and dispose of any monies without any fair agreeement, or to keep it, then that itself is illegal. Also, if any Group leader/Rep were to make those choices either on behalf everyone else, or me personally, then you have every right to bring a law suit against that Organisation/Rep E.C.T…very sad to come to that, but I’m afraid for me personally, I woud not hesitate, and shall do so. No group/Leader has made contact with me to ask what I am in need of, what help I need but this is old ground I’m going over and very transparent for many to see, so I will leave that for now. I’m just very blessed right now to have a friend of the family who’s son is a Barrister and has followed what has been going on for some time, it is also personal for him and he’s collegues because of what I, we, have been through.

    The Redress Board have the former Resident’s of Industrial schools details from The Redress made so any monies should be paid direct to all survivors from The Religious Orders/Government going of that information.

    Regards,

    Anne

  21. Anne says:

    I understand where your coming from there David. To be honest with you, there will be no need for any hunger strike now.

    In regards to the hunger strike, this was mentioned in support of Michael O’ brien who said he would go on hunger strike if he had to some weeks back, and it’s hard not to get cought up in that (especially for me personally as I beleive anyone who is passionate enough to go to such length on behalf of any survivor has my full backing )..
    However, theres is absolutely no need now. And I am confident that justice will be done.

    Regards

    Anne.

  22. dorris lloyd says:

    Annie MY heart goes out to you as well everyone on this site give yourselves a big pat on the back for speeking out against the group leaders and having the courage to say what you see.we are almost there with this one.Annie is absolutly correct in what she is saying,it is illigal what they are doing to us.If we do not get what we want the next step WILLbe the court of HUMAN RITES IN STRASBOURG.They have had enough of our money [GROUP LEADERS] WE will ask what has always belonged to us in the first place.300,000 plus 64,000 aggrated dammages and for putting us through this AGAIN.ANNIE i love your post you are so very brave I WE cannot thank you enough…..reguards dorris

  23. Anne says:

    Thankyou Patrick for your kind words, and to everyone else..there are too many heartbreaking story’s to be told of many survivors..

    Justice has to be done.

    Anne..

  24. David (UK) says:

    Patrick. Annes (and others)stories is (are) desperately tragic and very sad and I feel for her. There are, unfortunately, many like Anne who have not, as yet, managed to tell their stories and I have no doubt that they would be equally as horrific. But to justify Annes (and others) very sad life to go on hungry strike is hardly going to help Anne or any other survivor at this stage. The very idea just means that you will be lowering yourself to their meaning and also you would be one less to convey a story. I have no time for so called hunger strikes and I believe the energy would (and should) be put to better use by continuing to have your say and airing your grieviences to the government and to any other bodies. Even if the results prove negative you must not give up. Going on Hunger Strike or supporting anyone who wishes to do the same means that you have washed you hands of the whole sorry saga of fighting for the rights of survivors of institional abuse when they were children.

  25. patrick.bentley says:

    reading the above stories makes me stand back in shock and horror…someone asked me on here what would be my motive for going on hunger strike..well read annes story again and theres your answer…..

  26. Anne says:

    QUOTE-29/05/2009-News Article.

    For your information. This is a quote made by Mr Bran Cowen.

    They were required to pay €128 million ($228m), but a redress scheme has already paid out almost €1 billion ($1.78bn) in compensation and legal fees to about 12,500 of more than 14,500 victims.

    Next week Prime Minister Brian Cowen will meet representatives of the 18 religious orders at the centre of the scandal “”TO SEEK GREATER COMPENSATION FRO THEM””

    Describing the report as “one of the most important documents of our time”, Cowen said he was “appalled by what I have read and horrified by what the victims have had to endure.

    “It is my Government’s unshakeable view that, in the light of the report’s findings, there is a moral obligation on the congregations (religious orders) to contribute more by way of reparation.

    “The Government will convey these views directly to the congregations when I meet them,” he said.

    Regards everyone,
    Anne.

    I shall be intouch next week, with many more recorded ” statement’s ” E.C.T.

  27. Anne says:

    Dear Seanie,

    No, your poem is not childlike! and moved me deeply. That was real life back then in it’s rawest form. I have thought non stop the last few day’s of certain incident’s which has evoked many feelings, thought’s and memorie’s..been quite painful, but I push on.

    Just to let you know Seanie, I have two major Newspaper’s in England that are waiting for the go ahead with great interest of my story. Not only that, the story of other certain individuals from this site who have no Representation and who are being continuously ignored, whom I shall also be speaking up for.

    I have been informed Legally that I am within my right’s to object, sue any person/persons who claim to Represent me without my consent. Also, My Legal Rep will apply for a copy/statement’s from The Religious Orders which shall be scrutinised as to what, how, when E.C.T. these monie’s should be dispursed/what was intended.

    It is has been recorded on many occassions that The Religious Orders would, and I quote; ” CONTRIBUTE FURTHER COMPENSATION FOR SURVIVOR’S OF CHILD ABUSE” This is basically what it say’s on the tin so to speak, and for the state to make deal’s with Leaders/Group’s/Reps E.C.T without my permission, acknowledgment, of anyone who hasn’t or doesn’t want to be represented by them they therefore have a Legal and moral obligation to liase with any other survivor of abuse as they have done so with these Goups.

    Thankyou for that poem Seanie and your kind words, it’s so nice to connect, share and recall events however painful they maybe, as from this we shall NEVER LOSE OUR FIGHTING SPIRIT.

    Kind Regards,

    Anne.

  28. sean morrison says:

    dearest Anne,
    That is a heartbreaking account of your survival, my heart goes out to you as Im absolutely sure all of us feel your pain.
    This is just one story that I have mentioned earlier on Paddy’s site that should be on the headlines in every newspaper in England and Ireland, shout it out from the rooftops, tell of your captivity in the hell-holes to them, tell of the beatings, the hunger, I ate little white maggots in rotten minced meat thinking they were rice even though the smell was repugnant, watched little eight year old’s who had bed-wetting problems walk around the yard with the mattress on their heads almost every morning even in the rain, crying in shame just a couple of minor things that still affect me and hearing Anne’s story puts those incidents in the shade. A little whisper we chanted as we walked around the yard in circles every day and a very true softly whispered.
    Oh Sir, Oh sir, I am so sad,
    I got one spud and that was bad,
    I’m getting so skinny,
    My shadow is gone,
    And I’m nearly sure I wont live long,
    Just one request before I go,
    Who started this famine I want to know,
    May his ears turn green
    And his nose turn blue,
    And the hairs on his head,
    His hat grow through,
    And if there is another disease he should chance,
    May it be rheumatism and St. Vitas dance.

    Sounds childish now, but true, sticks in the mind. Anne, I have studied interrogation under a Jewish expert, Aviom Sapir, here in the police academy, at my hearing in Dublin my lawyer said that I was going to be interviewed, I was interrogated. Let the Irish times and the rest know your accounts.

    Seanie.

  29. Raymond says:

    ANNE,

    MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU.

    Raymond

  30. Anne says:

    There is one more thing I would like to mention, that I have never shared with many before.
    After my first son was born in 1969, my Husband and I had to sneak my son into a B&B and hide him in a top drwer whenver the Landlord came around because no children were allowed.
    12 months later I fell pregnant with my second son and became extremely sick, I weighed 6 stone and the birth was horrific.. I nearly died losing so much blood that day and was mentally ill for sometime before and after. I was approached on a ward by two Nunns during that first week who said I would be best giving my son up for addoption as I wouldn’t be able to manage. Because I was that controlled, conditioned a certain way, I actually recall feeling like I was a child again, alway’s child like whilst in their presence and felt this is what I should do. And so I did. That was the biggest regrett, the most painful experience I have ever had, I live that daily.

    There is so much damage..so many and too many tragic story’s for ANY human being in position of powere to dare turn a blind eye, or play with the destiny of survivors live’s.

    The Government/State/Religious ARE GUILTY!! THE WORLD KNOWS THIS NOW.
    WHEN WILL YOU DO THE RIGHT THING BEFORE GOD, THE GOD I KNOW AND STILL LOVE, WITHOUT RELIGION..JUDGES YOU AND BESTOW’S UPON YOU GREAT VENGEANCE FOR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE, OR RATHER NOT DONE.

    Anne.

  31. Anne says:

    Dear All,

    Seanie, my sentiments exactly in regards to Dale’s horrific story. What a tragedy that was.

    Although not everyone’s case is the same, The Redress Board affected me personally severely, I was not prepared, I walked into that Court room that day, thinking everything will be ok, and straight away it became apparent that this was about to be a cold experience.
    I felt intimidated, guilty, shamed, and at time’s often made to feel as if I was lying, in regards to my comment’s of how the Nuns would often refer to us a “Pauper’s” & “Bastards” even though as a child we didn’t even know what those words meant!

    The Then “Sean Ryan” shot question’s at me,at one point even asking me “so tell me why your crying” !!!.. but eventually I looked at my daughter for reassurance, which gave me the strength to keep going, I gathered momentum and began to recall events as if it was yesterday, as clear as a fresh winter morning..my knees still trembled, mouth dry, shaking like a leaf but I did my best.

    Unfortunately, what I wasn’t prepared for was the aftermath..I had never spoke of my story in depth, not to my daughter or anyone..just snippets here and there..and as I went back to the Hotel In Dublin that day, I felt completely broken, my Daughter was heartbroken, angry, frustrated and unprepared, and I had to watch her suffer and feel for what I had been through. We stayed in that Hotel for a few day’s..very sad, lost and broken. It affected me severely , mentally and physically for many months..hence why I say this was such a calculated and cunning sham of ” Redress”.

    After my late Husband suffered a serious car accident in 1974, he was left in a Coma for along time, and I had to cope with his needs teaching him how to walk, talk and feed him self again. I also had to cope with his psychological problems (as well as my own) and lived the last 37 yrs with another form of abuse from the man I loved-my first and only love, who became violent, unbearable, complex and often very cruel to myself and my children. However, I never did forget the man I met before his crash, how loving he was, how big his heart was. This man that gave me so much love, when I first escaped to England. I also stuck by him and never left. This was damaging to myself and my children and I realise that now.

    Also Seanie, I would like to explain the irony of how Dale’s story struck a cord with myself then, as all my life we had struggled on benefits, we never had enough for anything, we often had no food and the kids wouldn’t have shoe’s for school..the only time I ever had money ironically, was just as my Husband was miss-diagnosed and spent 7mth in Intensive care. I recall visiting the Hospital twice a day, morning visit, evening visit, being told on a daily basis, he will survive, he won’t survive, phone calls at 4 in the morning telling us to come quick as he won’t make it.
    I also recall the day my Solicitor rang to say ” Good news Anne, You’ve been awarded x amount ” it’s a fantastic offer! if you don’t accept it, you may lose out ”
    I remember having no strength to fight, mentally physically broken, watching my husband fade away, I remember the day I received the money and I would whisper into my husbands ear, as he lay in an induced coma, ” hey, we have some money now..I got my money! and we are going to decorate the house and go on our first holiday together” My Husband never made it, nor seen a penny of that money, there were no easy time’s for us and no joy to feel.

    In a sense when we got that money it was like I paid a price for having it..and the biggest price losing my Husband.

    Although Dale spent his money, drank it away, e.c.t, I have never been dependant on Alcohol, drug’s or anything else, apart from medication to help my phobias, crippling Anxieties, social phobia and pain.
    Not all survivors turn to drink or drugs Seanie, and so many I have spoke to and especially recently, are good people, who are in desperate need of financial help to pay debts, bill’s Loans e.c.t or who simply want to take care of their children because they have finally realised this is it! our last chance.

    I will be in touch shortly, take care everyone.

    Regards,
    Anne.

  32. Raymond says:

    BLOODY SUNDAY and THE SAVILLE REPORT.

    Today was a very fine example of ‘JUSTICE SEEN’ – and done.

    Justice always LOOKS, SOUNDS and most importantly FEELS LIKE THIS.

    The Prime Minister said clearly that ‘HE WAS SORRY’.

    Not for them the antics, semantics and ‘expressions of regret’ of our Government. Or lack of them.

    I hope that Derry today resonated with ALL the Victims of Abuse in Ireland and that THEY can experience such a day soon. Quite a different affair from the launch of the Ryan Report a year ago.

    When Cameron said that he had not been ‘part of’ the Troubles but was left to hold the wreckage of the past, he reminded me of the new generation of Young Germans who protested their Innocence 40 years after the war ended, asking the world to get off their back and telling their Parents and Elders to account for THEIR OWN actions.

    I still have hopes that our own YOUNG IRISH PEOPLE will rise and shake off the YOKE of ABUSE nailed on their backs by THEIR Elders (any one over 38?? Ok, 50.) AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. And ‘DO THE RIGHT THING’.

    JUSTICE MUST BE SEEN – TO BE DONE.

    Raymond

  33. sean morrison says:

    Good morning Granny1 and all,
    Here in Canada where I have lived since 1969 the system also has many horror stories.
    NO END TO THE PAIN. The aboriginals here in the North of British Columbia suffered just like ourselves.One story comes from Dale Myra, a Cree in his early forties at his hearing, The adjudicator spoke softly, but the questions stuck Dale to his core, he was with his lawyer and they had been preparing for month’s for this session, rehearsing the words, going over his testimony. Dale had never before spoken about being raped in his Yukon residential school, but sitting in a lawyers office in Whitehorse he was being pressed for details, he became nervous and tongue tied, at times he broke down.
    By the end of the afternoon, he had told the adjudicator everything, reliving his abuse, episode by painful episode. All that remained was the judgement and the payment, or so he thought.
    A few weeks later the Canadian Govt. apoligised to Dale, this was followed by $265.000, given in two installments. Suddenly, he was rich. The experience, however, had left him gutted, it’s a terrible irony, the money and what he had to go through to get it, made Dales life worse.he gave the woman who was raising his son $60.000 drank himself stupid and giving to others, he is broke now. does it ring a bell.
    That is only one of many stories, there were 100,000 of them. The Federal Govt.has paid out 2.1 billion dollars, the Churches contribution was $100 million.
    Good luck to all and God bless Paddy Doyle for his good work.
    Seanie.

  34. Anne says:

    Dear All,

    I have coppied this article from today’s Irish Time’s-15/06/2010.

    I am delighted for this lady as she got everything she suffered for, if not enough. The article say’s it all, and reminds us all once again of just how cruel, calculated and unfair the Redress Board was.
    There was no ” fight ” there was full admission from The Religious Orders, and yet for many of us, it took 10yrs to be dragged through such another form of horrific abuse. And here we are, fighting again.

    THE CATHOLIC Church has reached an out-of-court settlement, said to be worth more than €250,000, with a woman who was abused as a child by Fr Brendan Smyth, it was reported last night.

    Marie McCormack sued the Catholic primate Cardinal Seán Brady, in his personal and official capacities, the diocese of Kilmore and the Norbertine Order to which Smyth belonged.

    It followed her being sexually abused by Smyth between 1970 and 1975.

    The settlement was made without admission of liability and included apologies by the defendants, which were accepted.

    It was the High Court action by Ms McCormack which led to disclosures last March that Cardinal Seán Brady had been involved in canonical investigations into abuse allegations against Smyth in 1975 which involved two young people.

    He believed both complainants and swore them to secrecy at the end of his inquiry in the Kilmore diocese.

    Ms McCormack’s case was to be heard in the High Court next month.

    She now lives in Canada and has said, according to an RTÉ report, that 35 years after the abuse, her marriage and quality of life have been greatly affected by the trauma she suffered, which began when she was 14 and continued until she was 20.

    she was 14 and continued until she was 20.

    Take care everyone, regards

    Anne.

  35. robert says:

    look at this apology in truth.

    redress
    here is a few bob to shut the f..k up if you don’t we will send you back to the prisons you came from.

    now go away.

    some apology

  36. Anne says:

    Dear all..

    The silence of certain individuals speaks volume, as does the lack of Action. This concerns me, however, this doesn’t surrprise me one bit.

    I hear your frustration, and Dorris, you are exactly correct in what you have asked for in regards to a little help from Paddy.

    I also note that the ” People ” reading this site regularly are also letting us get on with it, studying our move’s, wishe’s and want’s, so to speak..they can see where your heading, how your going about it..so inturn Paddy’s site sit’s well with many and is of use to many.

    I would like to suggest something, but I shall let you know on the 21/6/2010 just what that is.

    Please do not worry, you shall receive some compensation for what you rightly deserve.

    Robert, like I’ve said many time’s it is ILLEGAL what the Government is doing and we..”I” shall do all I can to get what is only fair and right.

    Regards Anne.

  37. David (UK) says:

    I sat here for an hour writing my mind at full speed ahead doing great >but forgot to add E-mail pressed Submit and lost the whole post .I cant believe it. Life sucks

    Granny1 I do feel for you. This has happen to me (on ocassions) and it is so frustrating when you have spent over an hour mulling over what you have written, correcting etc. So what I do sometimes (and maybe a little tip for you and others) when I want to write a long e-mail to someone or maybe I feel that I am going to post a rather long (and detailed) comment. I open my ‘Word’ document and type everything there (such as my submission to the Memorial Committee). I check it and once happy with it, I then save it. Then I go the forum (or e-mail), go back to my saved document, highlight it, copy and paste and then submit. This way, if for some reason it doesn’t go through first time, I can than go back to the word document. Apart from anything else you will have saved all that you have e-mailed or posted on forums and relate to it at a later date if you need to.

  38. Granny1 says:

    AMERICA> are there any American survivors of Child Abuse , Reformatories, Children’s Homes , ect out there who went for compensation . I would love to hear from you, I bet the American Government nor the Canadian Government didn’t keep the money by way of overdue compensation that is your right The Irish Government are threatening to do just that. My Son asked a lawyer about this he told him that if the Government were to try to do that IT WOULD BE ILLEGAL. that there would be a strong case in the European Court Of Human Rights.That the timing of the Ryan Report after the Rushed Redress was also very Odd and most likely also Illegal. ect ect.

  39. robert says:

    the question lays from the start of the whole thing regarding redress, this was the carrot the bait to sucker everyone.
    this is where the right of place made deals with the religious and government
    BEFORE WE EVEN KNEW WHAT THE WHOLE THING WAS ABOUT.
    i asked in a meeting of noel c barry why the limit on time for applicants for redress his answer was there has to be a limit of time we cannot expect to run it for years. he said he was proud to get three years.
    the reason i now see is that these agreements were agreed between them and the religious and government before the truth did come out later in all the reports. people would have had a much stronger case in court.

    IT BECAME OBVIOUS THERE WAS ABUSE OF EVERY KIND.
    AND ALL PARTIES WERE VERY GUILTY. THE WHOLE THING STINKS AND IS ROTTEN TO THE BONE.
    THE REDRESS WAS PUSHED AND BACKED UP TO THE HILT.

    NOW THERE IS MORE FUNDS NOTICE THERE IS NO MENTION WHAT THESE FUNDS ARE ABOUT OR WHAT THEY ARE FOR OR WHO IS ENTITLED WE ONLY HAVE THE SAME GROUPS WORD FOR THIS BULL SHIT.
    WHO THE FECKEN HELL DO THEY THINK THEY ARE TO HOLD US TO RANSOM.
    IF THE GOVERNMENT AND RELIGIOUS CANNOT EVEN STATE WHAT THESE FUNDS ARE FOR AND HOW THEY ARE GOING TO WORK THEN WHAT CHANCE HAVE THOSE WHO ARE NOT REPRESENTED BY THESE GROUPS GOT.

    WE ARE BEING FORCED ONCE AGAIN TO ACCEPT THIS CRAPPY TREATMENT IT IS SICK SICK SICK.
    THE GOVERNMENT WAS FAR MORE GUILTY THAN 50% THEY RAN THE COUNTRY AND CHILDREN WERE DESTROYED BY THEM PASSING THE BUCK TO THE RELIGIOUS FANATICAL PERVERTS AND THE MEDIA HAVE GOT NO BALLS TO GO AGAINST THE GOVERNMENT.

  40. Granny1 says:

    Doris Dowling Hello to you,you said that Avoca House has been let out to Polish,Russians, Other Eastern Europeans ect it’s no longer for survivors which is why the Waters were giving large Funding in the first place,We deserve a truthful explaination ,did they Buy it ??So they plan on setting up another house No doubt with more funding which all comes out of OUR COMPANSTION PACKAGE I say >NO NO NO.We Survivors must be handed our own compansation so we can BUY our own houses if that is what we wish and as for a TRUST FUND >NO NO , again the only Vultures who will get any benifit from that are The GREEDY LAWYERS, GREEDY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, GREEDY SO CALLED GROUP LEADERS WHO HAVE ALL LINED THEIR OWN DEEP POCKETS while laughing in our face ALL THE WAY TO THEIR BANK ON THE PRETENCE of their running services for Survivors the only running they are doing is to their BANKS,they should all hang their heads in SHAME, Who are they>The Dept of Education, The Religious Orders ,The Government Officials, The Aishlin Centre, Nova, Soca UK , Soca out in space,is that house still in CORK with Mr Barry?? ALL OF YOU ABOVE ARE A BUNCH OF GREEDY VULGAR VULTURE’S who stand on the same platform with the CORUPT RELIGIOUS ORDERS who you help to hide their shame under their black habbits , I have seen Bullying of the Older Real Survivors by the above Trust me the day will come when all the Above will get their come uppence , STEALING MONEY FROM THE VULNERABLE DOES NOT MAKE YOU AN INTELLIGENT CARING HUMAN BEING I thank Paddy for that , They would NOT get away with what they have been up to if this was America Abuseing the most Vulnerable Survivors , Will be Interesting to see what THE EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS make of such CORUPTION , SURVIVORS OF CHILD REFORMATORIES MUST BE PROPERLY COMPANSATED.IT IS OUR RIGHT. WE ON THIS SITE ARE BY FAR THE INTELLIGENT ONES THANK YOU PADDY,

  41. Granny1 says:

    I sat here for an hour writing my mind at full speed ahead doing great >but forgot to add E-mail pressed Submit and lost the whole post .I cant believe it. Life sucks

  42. dorris lloyd says:

    Robert and everyone else WE DO HAVE A VOICE PADDY FOR GODS SAKE please go to the media TODAY I AND OTHER SURVIVORS KNOW YOU CAN HELP US BY JUST A PHONE CALL TO THEM.WHY IS IT NOT HAPPENING?IF PEOPLE WANTED TO HELP US THIS WOULD BE IN THE PAST. WHY ARE PEOPLE DRAGGING THERE FEET. IF WE DON’T GET HELP WITHIN THE NEXT DAY WE SHOULD ALL GO TO THE ENGLISH PAPERS AS WELL.THEY WILL DEFINITELY LISTEN. THESE GROUP LEADERS ARE TRYING TO DIVIDE THE GROUPS SO THEY CAN CONQUER US.STUFF THEM ALL.

  43. dead man walking says:

    here here anne .you are totally correct . i second robert in saying thanks . scarily makes full sense . is there any minister speaking out on behalf of survivors . is there any solicitior who made money at the redress board taking our case to the european courts?

  44. robert says:

    thank you anne so much for the time you spent on this i only hope someone gets to the media and soon to speak up.
    we need that voice and now.
    we knew the stories of the religious was a decoy from doing anything for survivors now the public have been tricked into boredom of hearing the truth.
    not one head of the government was mentioned to resign, there’s a thought, were they responsible for the welfare of children or not?
    do they mean to say they knew absolutely NOTHING?
    or were they only 50% responsible for this country? thus that is all they want to pay?
    what about the finances we were supposed to have for our welfare from this government oh yes they finally capitalized on that and made a great profit out of it to pay that useless bank.
    who are the favourate to win the next election?
    labour finna gael oh then who?
    that party we just cannot trust f…. f…
    MAY THEY NEVER GET IN AGAIN IF THEY DO NOT RECONSIDER THEIR ACTIONS TOWARD SURVIVORS WE MUST REMIND PEOPLE OF THEIR ACTIONS TOWARD CHILDREN.

  45. Anne says:

    The Residential Redress Act in its First Section informs us what we are signing up to, its definitions, and why. Broadly and narrowly speaking in all its forked tongues it states:

    1. [1] “Abuse” in relation to the child, means–
    [a] the wilful physical injury of a child or failure to prevent such injury
    [b] sexual arousal or sexual gratification of a child
    [c] The serious impairment of the physical or mental health development of a child
    [d] Any other acts or omission that results in serious adverse effects on
    the child’s development, behaviour or welfare

    ENTITLEMENT TO AWARDS

    The making of an award simply put is in Section 13:

    [1] You are excluded from redress if you have received an award from another court or board for the same circumstances as defined in the Redress Act
    [3] In respect of other circumstances outside of the Redress Act you are not entitled to an award from the board but ‘are not prevented in seeking redress elsewhere’
    [4] The making of an application to the board does not involve the waiver of any other right of action by the applicant
    [6] A person found to have given false evidence to the board shall be
    guilty of perjury and the penalties thereof which includes prison
    Later it states: On acceptance of an award you agree to discontinue any
    other actions against any persons or public body in the act that arise out of the circumstance of your case that you have before the board

    Section 24 Where an applicant has accepted an award under the Redress Act under First Section and complied with its terms prevents you from seeking same from other court actions

    CONCLUSION

    Again, as outlined and high lighted in the original Means to an End Document, no reference is made to the wrongful imprisonment or the violation of our constitutional rights in the Redress Act. But the haste in the enacting of the bill and the acceptance of it by all parties, both state and the purported Group Leaders has given us that opening.

    That rush to legislation fuelled by a race to conclusion was designed to pervert the course of justice, but perversely did just that by helping us instead. The worst part is no one noticed and for those that did they were encouraged to stay quiet because of the fear that they would receive no compensation at all.

    The Redress Act is all about abuse in the institutions but not the institutions themselves, or the illegality of them and the violation of your constitutional rights. It is worth noting we were sent there under the 1908 Children’s Act and not under any amendments of that act. The Industrial and Reformatory Acts themselves, though they had two different postings of them, neither one had invalidated the other for neither Act had been rescinded or amended. Even with that both postings of the Act does not mitigate our cases any less. Remarkably even survivors, well intentioned or not, believe it does, along with a few not so remarkable solicitors. Awareness is the key. There is no defence in what they intended to do but a very real case in what they did.

    Part 3 will be soon and involves the illegality of the Redress Act itself which directly violates the constitution and yet again our Rights under it.

    OUR MEANS TO AN END

    Part [3]

    The Congregational Indemnity Agreement with the Irish Government was and is unconstitutional. It violates Article 44.2.2 of the constitution which states that “the State guarantees not to endow any religion”. The literal translation of the word endows goes even further: It means to give or bequeath monies, special treatment, income or properties to a person or institutional. This on its own terms should bring the Catholic Church to its financial knees right across the country and go some way to restoring some kind of democracy at last to this green and fair land.

    Of course our present Government went on regardless of some relatively minor point like the Constitution, and indemnified the Catholic Institutions until the end of 2005 against any legal actions taken against them by former prisoners. That was a big break for us for haste will make waste of many things.

    By the only definition available to it the constitution forbids the state to engage in any indemnity deal that would forgive, nullify, or cancel the liabilities of a religious body against any injured party. Furthermore that would also prevent the state from giving financial favor or other supports to a religious body in any form. Any indemnity would be the equivalent to a subsidy for religious bodies and by itself directly violates the constitution.

    Please do not take only my word for it; this is also very much the opinion of Eoin Daly. Eoin who? Mr. Daly carries around in his back pocket a PHD from the faculty of law in the University College of Cork and is employed as well as a Government of Ireland research scholar in the humanities and social sciences.

    Underpinning all of the above is what I have written in our means to an end document [1] and re affirmed in part [2] of that document. But there is more….

    A very important and no less damaging component to all of this is the original agreement itself not withstanding all of the above:

    Any agreement under any statue is built on the principle that all sides are giving full disclosure of assets, accountability, and above all given to truth itself. Right up to just days if not hours before the Ryan Report, most if not at all religious were denying abuse ever existed in these prisons. Hours after its publication came the usual outpourings of grief from the Religious groups for the extra pain and anguish that they had caused. Sorry does seem to be the hardest word but it does not give reflective compensation one way or the other.

    It is also interesting to note that because of their lies and ‘mental reservations’ none of the religious have been brought by the Redress Board to the notice of the director of public prosecutions for their crimes of perjury. I will always ask the question, WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT THIS?

    If nothing else this document removes the last pitiful remnants of defence that the government, the Religious, and the Redress Board could possibly mount against us. The world is watching us in this fight and history waits for its end.

    The positive aspect of the self destruction and in fighting of Right Of Place is just that. More opportunists will be exposed too along with them from other mushroom groups of the same ilk, and as it should be. Their small carnival of supporters will either have woken up by then or found it had all passed them by. Even as I write there are those willing to take up the mantle from Noel Barry, not for us but only for themselves. Let them, for soon there will be nothing left to fight about but this has not stopped the money coming from the Government.

    The agenda is and never will be about transparency, accountability, and integrity. Corruption is a weakness and does what it says on the tin, and in time will pollute everything.

    The currency of anger and rage has no value unless it is converted into constructive action, and anything less delays if not destroys our aims. To stop all funding from whatever source for these groups is vital. They are there only to curry favour for themselves in many ways, not least pensions and jobs. To do this they need to look like they represented you in the past and now for the future. Listen to what Christine Buckly of the Aishling centre ‘support group’said: more money should be spent on counseling services, and education. Who claims to provide these services? Yes, support groups. What have they done for you? Yes, I too am still asking that question

    What Brian Cowen has said: The Government plans to place in a statutory trust an offer of €110,000,000 in cash from religious orders over the next few years. In plain English it means you get nothing. The main defendants in the case of institutional abuse are the religious and the Government, and have and still are using support groups themselves to divide and conquer us. We will have to apply, humiliate, and prostrate ourselves again to get anything from what is now an axis and a trinity of greed for self protection. They will of course tell you its for counseling, education, and the like, but this trinity that is Government, Religious and Support groups, or the GRS for short, will ensure you get nothing while it appears you got something. You will be considered ungrateful and unworthy just for asking or questioning them so be prepared.

    What is needed is to convert any compensation trusts, properties, or otherwise that is held by government or religious orders into liquid assets for all members, and for it be divided equally among them whatever their circumstance.

    The nature of these aims is to empower us as victims of institutional abuse to decide for ourselves if we need counseling or not; further education or not; or even if we want to play tin-whistles. Anything less is to discriminate against individual members and continues the abuse that they have already suffered as children.

    We all want to go home and not have to re-visit these dark passages of our lives or for the rest of them. We just simply fought the wrong fight and put our expectations too high on the shoulder of people so low. Knowing better now will make us stronger but we must act on its wisdom. It is a place where we must hope for the best but expect the worst, and while looking at the present debacle, it does not look like it could get any worse. It will.

    ——————————————————————

    SUPPORT GROUPS WHO ONLY SUPPORT THEMSELVES

    This is the list that presently exists for support groups here in Ireland alphabetical order:

    Aishling Centre

    Alliance Group

    Irish Survivors Of Institutional Abuse

    Justice For Healing

    London Irish Women Support group

    Right Of place

    Right Of Peace

    Soca Of Ireland

    Soca Of England

    South East Survivors Association

    True Survivors Of Institutional Abuse

    Some of the very genuine groups from this list and others not recognized by the Irish State, recieve no funding from any quarter that includes Government, HSE, religous or otherwise and are the unsung heroes of this whole debacle. They are not looking for sainthood either. They also do not hide behind the fine print of complicated charity companies designed for secrecy and self profit. The money that Noel Barry has been able to accumulate for himself and his close associates, and indeed other groups, has been got through this route. His associates will in time prove to be not so close to him when they find that the money is gone and they have to answer for his and their own actions. Other new groups propose colourful alternate names as follows:

    Ancy Centre

    Alligator group

    Crocodile tears group

    Left of place

    Left Of peace

    South West Survivors Association

    North, South and East Survivors Associations

    Non members support group

    UnTrue Survivors Of Institutional Abuse

    And others have since come on board and are still coming fast……………………

    The birth of some groups were born out of genuine delusion and frustration from members of the other groups, and even some of them are genuine soldiers, but they are few and far between. This simply cannot go on and will not be allowed to, and in the end represents nobody. At its best intentions, it can only work on a local and minute parochial level anyway. It is also tearing down slowly but surely any monies due to survivors of the larger picture. Along with this fiasco we have trust funds set up by those that are the least to be trusted, and this alongside so called educational funds that only supports begging resulting in piecemeal handouts.

    This problem is universal for life repeats itself everywhere..

    Please pay close attention to the above..

    Best regards to fellow survivors..especially the one’s who are struggling, to live in peace….

    Anne

  46. Granny1 says:

    Hi Paddy .Paddy you have my permission to represent Me and be my spokesperson , my name should NOT be on anyone’s other person or group’s List as I have not used any services ,the same goes for some others that I know . Well Done on your very deserved Award.

  47. several years ago i phoned the Irish office in Strasbourg, it was when the Irish were in charge, the lady who answered informed me that she had never heard of industrial schools in Ireland. this frightened the life out of me . so i have never tried again

  48. robert says:

    the questions remain why no government interest in the welfare of survivors.

    it is recorded the government said they must listen and understand survivors needs.

    the answer is no need to deal with survivors.

  49. dead man walking says:

    how must that be for the religious where there most staunch supporter no longer supports them . you have done untold damage to already abused men and women of industrial schools horsman . shame on you ! while men and women were facing redress board with the likes of you accussing survivors of lying or jumping on the band wagon . andrew writes your still in the thick of it

  50. Greeting All and Paddy and Congratulations on your award, no better man, delighted to hear it.

    Going back to the proposal I mentioned above on this matter of an umbrella organisation of some kind. The limitation of such an organisation is that it can act only like as a representing body or union and it will probably never be mandated with statutory powers by the Irish govt/State for obvious reasons.

    However, its non statutory nature will not disarm it of power.

    Many people might know SNAP (abuse survivors organisation) in the USA. The nearest thing we have in Ireland is PADDY´S SITE and he must be deeply overloaded with work from it.

    Imagine an Irish equivalent of SNAP-Paddy´s site on a bigger scale run by several people and professionally backed by an accountant and some other skills. Running several languages, it could be the leading site in Europe. This would be an organisation that cannot be ignored or messed around in the same way that individual are messed around in Ireland. This is an organisation that would have influence at election time.

    This is an organisation that could create its own abusers data base and link survivors and publish that data base under certain conditions.

    The State is certainly not going to do it.

    Its time to do it.

    RB

  51. paul nolan says:

    I was nine when i was first sent to an institution in Cork, many many times we were taken from education classes to work in the fields, clean in the kitchens, polish floors, clean toilets, unblock sewage pipes,to name a few of many tasks, normal school children never have to do.
    But the nuns and brothers ate the food we produced in the fields, ate from the kitchens we slaved in, walked on the nicely polished floors we were forced to shine with rags, sell us basic food they considered a luxury.
    Innocent nuns and brothers, never (there is only a degrees of guilt) Abuse comes in many forms.
    We were innocent children not (inmates)
    My crime for being sent there…
    NOT GOING TO SCHOOL.
    Florence Hogan you could not be more wrong.

    Paul Nolan

  52. Andrew says:

    Tell me Florence how’s the campaign in support of Sister Callida going? I hear her peonies are doing a treat though her dahlias need to be re-planted in heavily mulched soil. Could you get her advice on Sweet Williams for me. My Sweet Williams are ever so droopy at the moment and I recognise that this ‘droopiness’ may have a lot to do with the extremes of weather we’ve had since November. Has Sister Callida any idea whether my ‘Love Lies Bleeding’ plant is susceptible to nitrogen – will an over-supply of nitrogen hasten or quicken their root system? Any help appreciated.

  53. Rose says:

    I also sent a message through the same site. I received an e-mail from there.. subject…Gaza.. and nothing since.

  54. Rose says:

    So just what happens when we e-mail the powers that be. My friend Kathleen sent a message through http://www.fiannafail.ie/page/s/contact She then got an e-mail telling her it was being sent to the Dept Of Education. (Mary Coughlan). Then Kathleen receives another e-mail telling her that there is some industrial dispute going on with ‘some of the staff’ at the department of education and skills… and could she write to them again giving them her address and that this would be processed ‘as soon as possible’. I haven’t heard of any dispute at that department, have you? Shouldn’t the public be made aware of such?.

  55. sean morrison says:

    Hello Robert,

    The award states; Paddy Doyle, author, disability rights campaigner and advocate for victims of institutional abuse.
    In recognition of his tireless and passionate work on behalf of the marginalised in our society and for his contribution to literature and education.

    Again Paddy, thank you from the bottom of my heart for your dedication on mine and all the others behalf. Seanie and my friends from Glin.

    I e-mailed Margaret Thornton and put the sugestion to her (her sister spoke with a TD in Clare)that the Govt. should send out a suggestion form to all of us who are still alive and with a simple YES/NO to how the compensation should be handled as to their own liking, a trust fund or a cheque. Her sister told her that she was told by the TD that we should know this week of the Govt. intentions, so maybe it’s too late now for that avenue.
    Regards. Seanie.

  56. Congratulations Paddy you so deserve the Lord Mayors award.Catherine.

  57. patrick bentley says:

    i saw you in the northside people yesterday..well done paddy..

  58. robert says:

    i never knew paddy well what ever this award was for you certainly deserve it for your work for the people, this country needs more people like you sir.
    well done again paddy

  59. Paddy says:

    Thanks so much for your congratulations Seanie. I very much appreciate you thinking of me. Paddy

  60. Paddy says:

    Thank you so much Seanie. I appreciate the congratulations and am delighted to accept them. Paddy..

  61. sean morrison says:

    Congratulations Paddy on receiving the Lord Mayors award, May 19th. it will compliment the Christy Brown award.

    Seanie.

  62. Charles O'Rourke says:

    I wish to point out that it is we who are asking Paddy Doyle to be our ombudsman. Paddy may choose to accept or refuse but it is we who are doing the asking.

  63. Charles O'Rourke says:

    The redress is just one aspect of the work to be carried out by our own ombudsman and given the morsel to be dealt out a very little aspect. This amount is no more than an expression of contempt towards the children of the Ryan report, a report that schocked Europe a year ago and changed the religious landscape of Europe for ever. In the august years for many surviviors, this redress is important as a first step on a journey to reconcilliation.

  64. Charles O'Rourke says:

    Can anyone here who has the time and the knowledge start a petition so as to mandate Paddy Doyle as our ombudsman in relation to any meetings with the government pertaining to the welfare of survivors and their families of Catholic and Protestant institutions in the Republic of Ireland as covered in the Ryan Report. The actual wording of the mandate is important as is the number of mandates. If there is to be a State appointed representative for survivors then we had better get our own representative who can put our interests to the fore otherwise it will be a one way street. Given the record of the State on issues pertaining to children this would be a prudent move on behalf of survivors.

  65. robert says:

    this again is the neglect neglect neglect ABUSE

  66. robert says:

    we need answers now from church and state where are they? it is very obvious we were all misled misrepresented without our consent. the only so called members of the groups are those poor people who have no clue and believe every they are being told or fear they will have nothing if they do not sign on the groups.

  67. Raymond says:

    With due respect to Sean and all,

    I say Thank you Barry. With one or two comments if I may:

    The Government should pay for it, completely, but have NO SAY AT ALL in the running of it and AGREE with the decisions taken.

    Would Mary Robinson qualify, or is she ‘too close to the story’?

    A quick and early resolution of all issues should be aimed for. We don’t need another Inquiry or Tribunal, as all the facts are known, proven and in the open

    Emergency payments/advances should be available for those who need it NOW.

    Thank you Barry.

    Raymond

  68. dead man walking says:

    Talk of innocent nuns !!! what about innocent children? Does it make you innocent if you turn a blind eye to what went on? Each and every nun whether they personally abused or not were aware that others amongst them were .Horsman Hogan must be reeling in benefits to be as outspoken as she has ..no funding from government!! not likely when you’re bankrolled by the religious

  69. dead man walking says:

    Horsman Hogan. Must have been a hard pill to swallow that survivors were vindicated when for years you along with the religious called us liars! I hope you rot in that place called hell . Ryan report coming out after the Redress Board was closed. What a farce! The religious are still covering up . They still don’t give a toss what happens to us. Trust fund. Yeah we will beg again !! Will we?

  70. sean morrison says:

    Please stop, Hello Margaret Thornton, glad you visited Paddy,s site. I said many times earlier that no one represents me, and condoned Paddy to do so. The last statement from Redmond Barry with all due respects is the same as what is already going on, too many people. One person would represent me at any meeting in the Dail or anywhere else and I say it for the umpteenth time “Paddy Doyle” forget about all the ABCs and concentrate on X factors.YOU & I. We are not equipped to deal with the Govt. we are voices in the wind at present, my education in the hell-hole did not prepare me for this, I am self educated since fleeing the Emerald Isle after being released at sixteen,I am a private investigator in Canada, my passion is with the protection of children, I will gladly tell you that I was instrumental in sending of two perverts to life in prison, {they will never get out}, here a few years ago for the drugging and video taping of children in sexual abuse.
    Margaret, you have been through the gauntlet as have you sister and Paddy and Michael, the boys were with me in Glin, Michael was a great boxer after he got out, sadly he is not with us now, I keep photo’s of him close by as a survivor, say hello to Paddy in Clare for me. One thing that I swore to after getting out was to find as many of the boys as possible to confide with, learn how they are doing, my search took me to many countries, I found them in Ballyjamesduff, Chicago, New York, Southampton England,Hereford, Birmingham,and so on. How did I do that, I wrote to the newspapers as should all of us do, Margaret found me,Jim Kavanagh found me,Tim Gleeson and Jim found me, the Foynes boys found me, and so on and so on how many others are out there. The fact of the matter is that all of the comments that I have seen from Paddy’s little platform indicate that compensation should be distributed to all of the survivors in cash, eliminate the people who have been saying they represent us and they will scream blue murder, the cash flow will stop to them and they know that. Finally, after going blue in the face, someone in Dublin has to address this with the Government.
    Paddy, get on your bike and please beat some sense into the morons in Govt.
    PS. Margaret, give our love to Les.
    Seanie & Peg

  71. An outline Proposal for a Spokespersons Office

    Independent Office

    Staffed and run by survivors with professionals in their service and publically represented by a prestigious well known international leader.

    Objectives of an Independent Spokespersons Office.
    1. To assist in representing survivors in their fight for justice, acknowledgement, the truth , compensation, restoration and all the many worthy aspects of representation befitting the needs of the survivors.
    2. To coordinate, distillate and present basic common goals and views of individuals, groups and charities that wish to have some or all of their views presented through a spokesperson´s office with their approval.
    3. To highlight key, central issues in a positive and structured way with a collective voice, thereby maximizing the benefits to all stakeholders.
    4. To assist in making recommendations for emergency assistance to survivors in an appropriate way.
    5. To inform, educate and disseminate information about the Irish abuse system to appropriate individuals , organization and countries while holding a collective approval on certain basic issues and facts. E.g. Spokesperson may write to international papers with factual information or view which are approved by the participating bodies. Spokesperson office might represent at International Judicial Proceedings to provide opinion or an expert witness capacity.
    6. To create an organization with greater strength, influence and voting power than might be possible by individuals or groups.
    7. To provide a means of stating and distinguishing the differing views of organizations in a neutral and respectful way so that, differing opinions can be expressed along side without one undermining the other. E.G. ´5 out of 8 organisations favor the introduction of XYZ while 3 other organisations felt it would be a hindrance to XYZ´.
    8. To assist in establishing appropriate and agreed means of compensation within an agreed framework by the participating organisations.
    9. To assist in looking at and representing less well represented victims of the abuse system
    10. To assist in moderating .
    11. To assist in directing survivors in crisis to obtain appropriate assistances of a health, legal advice, etc.
    12. To prevent conflict between survivors groups
    13. To assist in empowering survivors and survivor groups by linking with other similar organization worldwide.

    Possible Extended Role of The Spokes Persons Office…………

    A….Act as a public watchdog and monitor over the performance of Govt in distributing compensation and those receiving it.

    e.g. Publishing performance targets, deadlines on delivery by Govt. Highlight failures.

    e.g. Publishing the burdens on survivors in legal, administrative and chasing effort required to obtain compensation in real terms, liaison time, vexatious admin practices invoked by state, etc.

    B….Manage the Monument.

    C….Run a high quality web site.

    How could it work
    Organisations and individuals could make the views that they wish to be coordinated, known to the Spokesperson office. These views could then be assembled with other views to establish if and to what extent consistency exists or does not exist. Then the spokesperson creates a basic statement of views and asks the participating bodies approval on such representation that might be made.

    What structure might the office have.
    A single person is likely to be overloaded entirely. A number of people may be required…e.g.

    Person A: Gathers Information-opinion-requirements-demands-feedback, etc..
    Person B: analyses and summarises information and creates group position statements.

    Person C: Represents, lobby’s and is the focal public face or voice box.

    Funding of such an office
    Private contributions, charity, contributory element from compensation scheme, govt contribution, philanthropic societies.

    Who might the team consist of……
    1. Survivors.

    2. A well known-respected (and possibly international) skilled and trained leader from public life capable of strengthy representation of the interests of the abused. E.g. a former foreign President, a current or former world leader of one kind or another, a champion of one kind or another.

    With whom might the Office Liaise…………….

    Irish political system, state, legislature, charities, newspapers, TV, organizations providing assistances

    International bodies, international courts, charities, newspapers, TV, organizations providing assistances

  72. Rose says:

    An Independent Representative for the survivors/victims is a good idea. Also, an Independent Judge to rule what compensation victims should receive and be done with it. No more ‘behind the scenes meetings’ between the Government and Religious Congregations. They have no right to be making decisions/deals on anything. The redress board and the indemnity deal were a complete farce.

  73. Brilliant spokesperson Paddy Doyle.

  74. And at long last we have free speech. This is our gift and it has been given to us by Paddy . Here’s a virtual medal just for you.

  75. David (UK) says:

    I’m not sure that I trust Florence Horsman Hogan but what she says does strikes a cord for many survivors. And, like Raymond, I would be inclined to nominate Paddy to be that representative. Paddy seems to have more of a grasp of what and how survivors feel. He understands their isolation and their frustration at been kept in the dark as it were. Added to this is the fact that Paddy has a Website already up and running which has proved (and is proving) to be both popular and very informative.

  76. robert says:

    paddy is doing just fine, we need to hold tongues on our anger and fight for justice where every single survivor can be heard properly.
    it is impossible for the groups to represent all survivors it is just not going to happen nor has it ever happened.
    just education and counseling is a joke, many are far too old,disabled, and busy struggling with life, with children through no fault of their own.
    there are so many problems to tackle that these groups are not aware of it takes professionalism and the way to do this i believe if for an independant body/office with a spokesperson to do this

  77. Raymond says:

    PADDY !

    I SEE YOUR NAME ALL OVER THIS POST:

    PADDY DOYLE.

    ELECTED BY THE MANY, CHOSEN BY THE FEW.

    Raymond

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