Feb
8
By Breda Heffernan
Monday February 08 2010
SENIOR Catholic clergy are to meet survivors of clerical abuse today ahead of their visit to Rome to discuss the fallout of the institutional child abuse scandal with the Pope.
The Irish Bishops’ Conference has refused to comment on the meeting except to say that it is confidential. However, it is understood to be taking place this morning in Maynooth, and various survivors’ representatives will be in attendance.
The survivors will present a written submission to the bishops on the issues raised in the Ryan report on institutional abuse and the Murphy report on the cover-up of child sex abuse in the Dublin Archdiocese.
Cardinal Sean Brady announced last month that he would hold discussions with survivors ahead of his visit to the Vatican. He also said the bishops would engage in as much consultation as possible with lay people, the religious and priests before meeting Pope Benedict.
Archbishop of Dublin Dr Diarmuid Martin will not be attending today’s meeting and has been holding his own discussions with abuse victims.
The bishops of all 26 dioceses will travel to Rome this weekend ahead of their two-day ‘mini-synod’ with the Pontiff, which begins next Monday.
The Vatican has been criticised for failing to make a public statement following the publication of the two reports.
Cardinal Brady has said that he does not know what the outcome of the mini-synod will be and, while it would be one step, it would not “resolve all our problems”.
“I expect to be heard very respectfully by the Holy Father, who said he wants to listen to us in order to help,” he said late last month.
A spokesman for the Irish Bishops’ Conference refused to confirm that the Maynooth meeting was taking place today and would only say that the meeting was being done “at a local level” and was confidential.
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29 Responses to “Bishops meet victims ahead of ‘mini-synod’”
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Who gave these people a mandate to speak to bishops on behalf of ’survivors of abuse’. Time and time again I’ve said on this website and elsewhere that there ISN’T ONE OF THESE GROUPS THAT HAVE SOUGHT A MANDATE TO REPRESENT ME AND MANY OTHERS WHO WRITE TO THIS SITE. Does their arrogance know no bounds or have they decided to ‘take charge’ just as priests, Christian Brothers and Nuns did when the ran industrial schools and other institutions. It’s time to call a halt to this high-handed attitude of those who don’t even have a mandate to speak on behalf of people who were abused while in the ‘care’ of religious orders.
What are we to do Paddy?
Well said Paddy! When Tommy was on hunger strike outside the Dail back in the mists of time, a survivor told me he gave up going to the Aislinn Centre because Christine Buckley used to ‘boss’ him around that it reminded him too much of his institutional days! Apparently, the Groupies – Goys(sic) and Gals haven’t learned a thing! I imagine now that funding has ceased for some groups that they’ll be haranguing the church! I will spare you the adjectives I’d like applied to
these worms!
Has it ever, or will it ever be asked how God views the church..its time people went back to the bible themselves to see if the so called church holds any right to be called the church that Jesus formed in the book of acts…I’ve done so and found no prove that the Roman church is seen by god as his ..Jesus told people to come to him not to a church that has kept people from the truth of the bible for far to long..can you imagine the healing abused survivors would get if the new God was not part of the Roman so called church..they’d have a brand new view of all that’s happened and how it could happen..Yours, Patrick.
Once again survivors are being cheated by other survivors – and the bishops, so rightly excoriated in the Murphy Report, are helping these arrogant people.
When somebody speaks on my behalf without a mandate to do so, then they wilfully render me silent. The same silence and secrecy that facilitated the abuse of me and so many others is now on display in Maynooth. There are those who without my permission or knowledge have taken the right to speak for me and I deeply resent that.
Personal I would give Paddy Doyle the mandate to speak for me, if he requested it. So I have people representing me who know not of me and I know not of them.
Awakenings
In anybody’s life, at least if it is long enough, one more often finds that when the chips are down there is no one around. That is why it is always in the end down to you. More often than not it is learned behavior for there are many good people too. In this lies a tale of two lives.
There was a man that passed away a few years back leaving mostly goodwill behind. As his only daughter struggled with the rest and awash with memories, she began to realize as much as they loved each other, he was also a very private man which made her mourn him all the more. A month passed by when suddenly the first cheque came through the mail, then another, then another…………. Many cheques and money orders later one letter that came with them that summed up the rest. It went like this:
Dear Sarah,
I only heard recently of your fathers passing. Enclosed is a cheque for €5000 which includes the interest that your father never charged me, and also covers the goodwill that I simply can never repay. Without him I would not be the success that I am to-day or be the person that he saw in me. If there is anything I can ever do to help you when you need it, please do not hesitate to call me.
Tom
When Sarah at last had totted up all the monies she realized at last his privacy was a just a cover for his generosity and his friendship to others was the least private of all, at least to them.
Then there was another man only others loved to hate which included himself.
As a child he did not know love only survival. He learned to take what was rarely given, steal at the very first opportunity and lie to cover his tracks. Tears covered his rage and with age came a certain polish. He pretended to speak for others but when they tried to speak to him he would not speak at all for he now had a spoke-person. They asked where all the money had gone but by then he knew nothing at all. He had his supporters, though few that they were, but he had them believe that without him they would get nothing. So they settled for a lot less while he spent the rest and that’s when everyone knew: nobody cares
The first person in this story gives me hope but the second person you all know so well, and have met him or her many times before. Some of these people call themselves leaders, others call themselves priests or nuns, even some call themselves politicians. One thing is for certain they all consider us to be fools.
Hold your fire, keep your rage, and show them who you really are. Show them what you can really do too, and cry no more. Get mad and kick the door down of this den of thieves and corruption and get to go home with a smile on your faces
Barry Clifford
E mail: bgclifford@iol.ie
Password: do something!
For others: please come on home
March on 24 march on wednsday from St Marys pro- cathederal in Dublin at 11 30 am.
Thanks for that faith in me Charles. Should the call come for me to represent anyone, I will of course give it due consideration. Best wishes. Paddy.
I thought I’d never write these words but now I feel I have to: Are the abused becoming the abusers?
Emer, if I knew what to do we could I would go ahead and do it. What we need it seems to me is some cohesive plan to oust these people who’ve hijacked the whole “abuse thing” and are now playing on the suffering experienced by so many others. It’s time for a coup at least. Let these so called representatives come forward and show us the mandate they claim they have. I’ve never seen any evidence of them being elected to speak on behalf of myself or any of the other people that were abused in institutions of one kind or another.
Emer asks: “What are we to do?”
What the victim of ANY sociopath’s physical and/or psycholgical rape has to do in order to fully recover from his/her traumatic experience is finally and fully realise that they are entirely psychologically different from their erstwhile abuser/rapist, not least to acknowledge that children are at the total mercy of adults. In other words, children are not adults – as per Roman Catholic dogma. Think about it…
Monetary compensation may help, but ultimately one has to become totally psychologically detached from the psychologically warped adults who violated us as children.
No amount of money can help a person acknowledge and fully accept what was done to them as a child. That, alas, is up to us as individuals.
I learnt that lesson the hard way.
Hanora Brenna wrote:
“…a survivor told me he gave up going to the Aislinn Centre because Christine Buckley used to ‘boss’ him around that it reminded him too much of his institutional days!”
I’m not surprised by this, as I met Christine Buckley on a a few occasions and found her to be so full of rage it was hard, if not impossible, to dialogue with her. So, after meeting her 3 times, I decided to have nothing further to do with her as I realised she was so damaged by her her childhood experience (growing up in Goldenbridge Industrial School) that she could never be a normal adult.
Paddy asks:
“I thought I’d never write these words but now I feel I have to: Are the abused becoming the abusers?”
Sadly, Paddy, its a fact of life that most do. This is, after all, Holy Catholic Ireland, and so its not as if the Irish population suddenly (and collectively) woke up and realised that they have been repeatedly “raped” by their RC-brainwashed politicos. They haven’t… they’re sleep-walking themselves and their children, and even their grandchildren to a slow a certain death.
NB, I’m Irish myself and I ceased to be amzed at how Masochistic the Irish are!!!
Then Paddy it is time for that call to be put to you. I call on you to represent me in any dealings pertaining to my interests as a survivor. Observe the words “I” and “ME” and”MY”. Observe also that this is a request put to you by me as an individual and not as a general request on behalf of any one else. Should you accept my call to represent me as a survivor then please direct your acceptance to me as an individual. How is that for coherence and clearness?, How is that for transparency?. Paddy I am waiting for your decision.
This request to Paddy is based on his long years of service to the many. He has maintained a high degree of dignity and credibility. He can not be bought because he is not for sale. A warrior in the best sense. Like a one man panzer division he has held his ground often alone and in the fray of battle ceded no ground. Wounded yes but not down. Hold out Paddy, we are rushing to the front and our victory parade will be led by Paddy on his tank all cannons blasting.
Paddy the vechicle named Tank is a metamophor for that Tingamagig you use as transport.
Individuality
We are as individual as our fingerprints and for many that is as good as it gets. As we move forward and ever closer to our march on the 24 March in Dublin at the St Mary’s pro Cathedral there is still much work to be done by you. It does not stop even after the day of the march for whoever is mandated on the day they can only do so much. This is a war we are on.
It requires a war chest of many weapons, and the least of all is money. There are computers to be got, stationary to be got, an office to be run, and a barrister to be employed. The enemy we face has already got these things in plenty. It is a war to be fought on both fronts, the religious on one side and the Government on the other. Their tanks and guns are well oiled and greased and have inherited a political mindset that they will always prevail. We, it seems to them, are in disarray.
Our anger is stationary, and we come in rags. Some of our guns are imitation water pistols and they leak. The hurly sticks that pass for guns are cracked and split and held together by wire. We have section leaders that elected themselves, and already running from the battle after taking their thirty pieces of silver and the last remnants of trust that was left from the rest of the combatants.
Overall both sides are evenly matched if it does not already favour us.
In the Finnish war, Finland was attacked and fought the might of Russia to a standstill and killed a million Russian soldiers to remind them of this fact.
Martin Luther King Junior reminded and old black man in a cotton field in 1959 that one day there would be civil rights for all in his Country; that there would be a black President on day; that we must believe in ourselves or perish. The old man laughed for he did not believe this. Fifty years later his sons saw it come through after casting their vote.
A wizened and wasted looking Indian man wearing nothing but rags to cover the barest of skin told the British high command in India that they would leave his Country. His people would not fire a shot in making them do it. The man’s name was Gandhi. The British high command laughed too. More importantly, this soldier and all his men did leave soon after.
Are we still really still shocked or outraged by the immorality of the religious and the Irish Government in defending a legal right that is an immoral wrong. Are we still in denial of how low they can go or in doubt of how high we can in righting a historical injustice? It is wasted time and energy to try and decipher the actions of these people for all that is left is to ask yourself what are you doing about it.
You are an individual and must prove it on the day of our march by just turning up. Your friends and supporters will turn up show that they believe in you too.
We already outnumber the enemy on the worlds stage and on a local public platform we have become the gathering storm. Convert your, anger, shock and outrage to action, action, action.
Barry Clifford
Email:bgclifford@iol.ie
Password: do something!
for the rest, come on home………………
A MAN ONCE SAID TO ME “DAMAGED PEOPLE CAN BE VERY DAMAGING”
LOOKING AT ALL THIS DIVISION I SAY “HE WAS RIGHT
These fork tongued survivors need to be dealt with big time! What are YOU going to do about it?
I must say I am surprised to hear those sentiments about Christine Buckley – she and her people at Aislinn have worked a great deal to raise the issue of abuse in Ireland down the years. I don’t think its fair to speak of her like that – she doesn’t deserve it. As for a mandate to speak with Church and State, didn’t Paddy attend the round table meeting with government on 3rd June last and was Paddy not appointed to the National memorial committee by government a short while back? There are some begrudgers who would ask, well, who gave Paddy a mandate to enter into discussions with government and why didn’t he seek public endorsement before accepting his post on that committee he sits as a representative of the Survivors? Lets be fair now – I have to agree With Martha on this much,that the Irish seems to have a disturbing masochistic streak as well as a destructive backbiting inclination. Whilst its quite correct to expose the money grubbers and their paymasters, lashing out at everyone just for its own sake is quite another thing. Christine Buckley started the ball rolling on the abuse saga and deserves her place in all this.
You are of course entitled to your opinion – nobody is going to deny you that. Just to clarify a few points. Yes I did attend a meeting with the government on 3rd of June 2009 but in an independent capacity. I wouldn’t dare to speak for people that was not mandated to speak on behalf of. My appointment to the Memorial Committee was not sought by me, I was requested to do so by the Minister for Education. While there is no doubt that Christine Buckley has played a major role in the highlighting of abuse of children in care principally through the documentary “Dear Daughter”, I would remind you that my book “The God Squad” was written years before the screening of that documentary. I’m not in the business of scoring points, I don’t want to engage in such trivia. I’m merely putting the record straight. Paddy.
Yes, I will represent you as best I can. Thanks for your trust in me and your faith in my ability to represent anyone. Paddy.
Its not about point scoring Paddy – fair play to you for attending the meeting with government on 3rd June last – but you did get a seat at the table on the SOCA UK invitation as a member of its delegation and their Mick Waters pushed your wheelchair into the conference room. Nobody is saying you were wrong to have participated at the meeting – but the record is there – the government didn’t invite any independent persons to the meeting. Your subsequent appointment by government to the Memorial committee is not being questioned either – fair play to you – I think its fine – but as I said, there are some who would see a contradiction in all this. Those people might say “where is Paddy’s mandate to speak to government on our behalf or to represent our views views on a National memorial committee” and what is his relationship with SOCA UK and its money grubbing activities, and I mean substantial sums, apart from the ridiculous bed and breakfast business in Parnell Square that opened in 2004 but was closed last year. Whatever happened to all the income from that little enterprise that was supposedly run for the benefit of the Survivors? A long overdue word on these matters from the illustrious Mick Waters, the man who titles himself “The Founder of SOCA” must come some day – perhaps when a proper inquiry is established. On a final point, Paddy’s book was published long before the TV screening of Dear Daughter and it must be accepted that Paddy Doyle was a key figure in launching the revelations on the Irish abuse scandals. Fair Play to you on that score Paddy.
Peter. I wasn’t going to bother replying to your post, however it is necessary that I do so so that you can be put right on some of your statements.
Mick Waters did NOT push my wheelchair into the conference room. I announced at the meeting that though I was at the SOCA UK table I was independent and not representing anyone as I had no mandate to do so. This did not prevent me from making a comment or in fact a few comments which were well received even if I say so myself. I can only presume that my appointment to the Memorial Committee was made on merit and dare I say it having worked on other government committees over many years. Maybe, just maybe, someone saw I had experience, I don’t know. If there are those cant see a contradiction in “all of this”, that’s their problem, not mine. There were many people at that meeting with the government who purported to have a mandate and yet none could say how many members it was representing. I know nothing whatever about SOCA UK’s business. I’ve met Mick Waters and Andrew Brennan a few times and worked with them in a spirit of harmony. As to other issues regarding properties and SOCA UK I know positively nothing. I respectfully suggest you direct those questions to Mr. Waters as he’s best placed to answer them should he choose to.
As to when The God Squad was published, it’s hardly relevant. How kind of you to say “Fair play to you on that score Paddy”. Am I supposed to be grateful? I don’t do grateful!!
Paddy, Thanks for that reply, but regardless of whatever way you put it, you attended the government conference on a SOCA UK invitation as part of its delegation and presumably are satisfied as to the bona fides of that particular “representative group” with whom you say you have worked in a spirit of harmony. Does that harmony extend to satisfaction with their mandate to enter into discussions with government and the church on matters relating to the Survivors or is it simply this, that a few days prior to the meeting of 3rd June last, you wrote an email to some of the “representative groups” asking for a place at the conference but only Mick Waters of SOCA UK extended an invite? Is that the spirit of harmony you refer? Because you presumably asked for an invitation directly from the Office of An Taoiseach pointing out your independent voice, but were told they were only inviting groups? When you wrote to the groups seeking to attend on their invitations did you take the opportunity to tell them they have no mandate to speak on behalf of the Survivors? Your subsequent appointment by government to sit on the National memorial committee along with Bernadette Fahy of the Aislinn Centre arose from your participation at that conference. Like yourself, Bernadette is an author who has written of her own experiences in the Industrial Schools. As you have harmonious relationships with SOCA UK – a highly incestuous and most secretive group indeed,perhaps you would ask them to explain the whereabouts of the enormous sums of public money paid over the past nine years including the proceeds of rental earnings at the property in Parnell Square? Like the Right of Place gang in Cork – it’s the money and property that will catch them in the end. Corruption is rather like that, there’s usually a grubby audit trail to follow.
Get your facts right Peter before putting them down on paper so to speak. Have a nice day! Paddy.
I would rather have Paddy Doyle represent me than any person at that table on the 3 June or 2 June what ever day it was! Others who worry about survivors being abused by survivors need to question their own integrity on this issue. Researching these groups has thrown up some very interesting information! As I’ve said before, your reputation is all you take with you at your departure from this ‘mortal coil’ and reputations will be ruined over this sordid saga. How cheaply they all sold out for!
As I sit at my computer in the U.K. and read your website Paddy, once again I question who gave these so called Representatives the rght to speak on my (our)behalf. Were I to meet them I might feel differently. Our decisions are being made by a no face group, and certainly betraying us all over again as with the Commission and Redress Board. I have met C. Buckley on one occasion when I visited the Centre. I felt a devasting pang then, of despair seeing the Survivors present be subservient and treating C.Bucley as we used to the Nuns. My conclusion on my speedy departure was she controlled the Survivors there. Her interest died when she learnt I would not be of assistace to her in promoting her agenda.
I hope to join you in the March, Paddy.
Perhaps a Monument, a Sculpture of a Priest and Nun with Slapper and Leather Strap in their hands with neglected, malnutitioed children (as we were) in the forground. For future generations to be reminded of. “LEST IT BE FORGOTTEN”. We would then know that the abusers had been exposed.
Kathleen O’Malley.
lISTENING TO THE LATEST NEWS THE POPE HAS FINALLY ATTEMPTED TO MAKE AN APOLOGY TO IRELAND AND ITS CHILDREN.
KEEP UP THE PRESSURE.