Religious orders fall €200m short of Ryan report charges

Conor McMorrow and Shane Coleman

THE religious orders’ final offer to cover the cost of the residential institutional abuse scandal is more than €200m short of the contribution the government wants it to pay, the Sunday Tribune can reveal.

The orders, which were heavily criticised in the Ryan report, have made a final offer totalling €348m, more than €200m less than what is required to ensure a 50:50 contribution from church and state.

The final bill is expected to reach €1.36bn.

Department of Education officials told the government during a briefing last Tuesday that 16 of the 18 religious orders criticised in the report have made offers of further contributions to the state.

The Sunday Tribune has learned that the final €348m offer is made up of €235m in property transfers to the state, a further €111m in cash payments to be paid over five years and a €2m waiver of rents owed by the state to the orders.

This will bring the total contribution from the orders to €476m which is just over a third of the likely final bill.

While this is a substantial improvement on the initial €128m agreed as part of the controversial indemnity agreed between the church and the government in 2002, it will not satisfy those who argue the orders should foot at least 50% of the overall €1.36bn cost.

The cabinet now has to decide whether it should sign off on this offer or seek a further €200m from the Orders to bring the split up to 50:50.

It will also be looking closely at the property portfolio offered by the orders to assess their value and usefulness. It is likely to look for cash or alternative property if some of the properties do not meet the valuations that the orders have placed on them.

The overall cost of the response to residential institutional abuse scandal is now estimated to exceed €1.36bn. This is made up of the €126m cost of the Ryan commission, the €1.1bn cost of the Redress Board, €10m for indemnity counselling, €12.7m for the Education Finance Board, a body set up to provide education for victims, and a further €110m for a proposed victims’ fund.

February 21, 2010
The Sunday Tribune.

Leave a comment ?

58 Comments.

  1. Theresa Murphy

    I hope Mrs Buckley will Not claim expenses for her Trip to London, if she wants to go to London she should pay out of her own pocket if I want to go to London or anywhere I’d have to fund it myself. She does not represent all survivors only those and her group at the Jarvis centre. I hope my name is NOT on her list for funding as I have NEVER been there.

  2. “life Vale”, “Life Assurance”, “actuarial”

    relate to value of life,insurance/assurance terms within a huge industry of valuation of life.

    Just in case you were kidnapped or something similar and missed your life, this actuarial profession ( thousands of them in London alone) can help you to assess life damage. The insurance policies are written in London as they always were.

    I wanted to have a family and children and an ordinary life. My trades and skills were obtained after I was expelled, then I had to educate myself, actually the Brits took me in arms. Now I have nightmares and Multiple severe PTSD and severe pain and tour the world as a ‘loner’ unwanted by most. 35 years walking the streets now.

    Soon my case is in court and 60K euro, 600K Euro and 6 million, its absolutely no replacement for my chance on earth to have an ordinary life, an ordinary chance un interfered by paedophiles.

    Blood, money or emotion, I’ll take blood or emotion in preference to money.

    If you read this email, be guaranteed that ordinary people in Ireland who are victims of clerics are absolutely not ordinary and that you have many, many supporters in many countries who are just delighted to assist against the abominable crimes of the clerics.

  3. As I’m in Ireland I don’t know a lot about this meeting other than what I’ve heard from the organisers of same. I’m sorry I can’t be of more help. What I can say is that I’m fairly certain there isn’t any danger of a coalition taking place. Paddy/

  4. bernadette cook

    Hi Paddy. There is a meeting in London Camden Irish centre Camden square 6th march 12pm till 3 pm Christine Buckley guest speaker and Mary Murphy also !to elect a committee and talk of a coalition of survivors groups news to us here in Manchester !this is the first we have heard of it again decisions made on our behalf is anyone out there going? I cannot make it but would like to know what is going on?

  5. Thankyou Hanora for your kind words.
    Keep strong everyone and see you at the March!!

    Take care,
    Anne..x

  6. It’s all the way one hold one hat as far as I know. All suggestions welcome. Paddy

  7. Hanora Brennan

    Barry, you’ve been inside our heads, minds and hearts and that is soooooooooo scary! You mask your pain so cleverly! What is that parting shot of yours … Never give up!

  8. Hanora Brennan

    Christy – I love to laugh out loud and you gave me a good laugh tonight for which I thank you!

    Angry, Charles, Raymond – your words are beautifully crafted as I am sure you all are!
    Get your minds out of the gutter – I meant the mental physiology of you! – Jeez, I give up, I really do!

    Anne – when we get off the ground you won’t ever feel alone again – ever! I promise you that! You are not alone now, your brothers and sisters are fighting this fight for all of us. All for one and one for all!

  9. Hanora Brennan

    Why is it called the Missionary Position – does anyone know?

  10. In corrupt Ireland WHO is abused is much is much more important than how they were abused and for how long.

    Defenceless children are politically powerless in the face of Fianna Fail Gombeen men and the Prince clerics of a Roman Emperor.

    They fail to realise that just as the political power they possess was seized from others so it can be seized from them.

    Loss of childhood, family, basic education, suffering rape, torture, slavery and being walled away from justice by one political move after another you might eventually get a pittance.

    On the other hand if you have a dodgy contract from a Minister and some one insults you…..then you’re on the pigs back. The pig of course is the taxpayer.

    Monica Leech
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0624/leechm.html
    Leech awarded €1.9m in libel damages

    A High Court jury has awarded PR consultant Monica Leech €1.87m in damages after she won a libel action against Independent Newspapers.

    The amount is a record for an Irish libel award.

    Monica Leech, a 49-year-old public relations consultant, sued Independent Newspapers for damages over a series of Evening Herald articles in 2004.

    She claimed the newspaper made false allegations that she got public contracts as a PR consultant because she was having an extra-marital affair with the then Environment Minister Martin Cullen.

    Independent Newspapers had denied libel.

    Mr Justice Eamon de Valera had said he would accept an unanimous verdict.
    ——————————————
    Maybe the Catholic Church should be sued for the libellous claim that newborn children are guilty of a crime they could never have committed.

  11. AIRBRUSHING THE PAST and pass the plate around,

    The catholic church hierarchy has not the the will to understand how the people of IRELAND and the world feel about CLERICAL CHILD RAPE, What we are seeing are not the actions of normal people they are all BONKERS

    THE CHURCH and STATE ARE BEDFELLOWS IN ALL OF THIS.

    Christy

  12. THAT GEM AGAIN

    DEPT OF THE TAOISEACH 09.09. 03.

    1

    ‘CHANGES IN PROCEDURES THAT CAN SHIFT THE BURDEN ON TO PARTIES WHO CONDUCT THEMSELVES UNREASONABLY DURING THE COMMISSIONS INVESTIGATION IN TO ABUSE’

    Why then when the RYAN REPORT accused the Christian brothers and others of fighting the inquiry all the way was the cost burden not shifted on to CORI
    I will tell you why, RYAN was a pussy a plant a tool of the state/church just like all the so called leaders,
    Who’s motto is- AH SURE WE GOT YOU THE BEST DEAL WE COULD. FOR WHOOOOOOOOOO.

    Christy

  13. The Bizarro world of the Catholic Church grows even more surreal.

    We are promised an epiphany after the bout of ring-kissing in Rome, but it looks increasingly like that decent individual, the Archbishop of Dublin, got his rear end kicked for not going along to get along with his fellow-bishops.

    Now the Bishop of Ferns is shamelessly rattling a tin cup for his flock to come help him out. I hope they blow him a few raspberries. Hello, Bishop, there a recession on, and you’ve got a job! I can’t believe that the Church does not have the money somewhere.

  14. Charles O'Rourke

    Raymond, from the bottom of my heart thank you for bringing this message to me.

  15. There is a very short demarcation line between genius and madness. Recent reports by the World Heath Organisation show that studies have revealed that line to be somewhere between the top of the skull to how far down over the ears a bishop can pull his mitre. Or how far he can pull the wool, provided he has a tight grip of his “sheep”.

  16. Will the Charity Commission have a close look at the legal implications involved in the bishop Brennans madness in imposing a LEVY for RAPE on the shoulders of his already hard pressed parishoners.?

    What next, a collection for Osama Bin Laden.

    Where does CHARITY stop and REALITY begin for these bishops.

  17. 60,000 Euro`s a year, for the next twenty years. The bishop Brennan says this will put his diocese back in the black.

    How much did the JUNKET to Rome cost.?. Much in excess of 60,000 I wager.

  18. A gathering will take place this evening at Dublins Pro-Catherdal, the largest choir ever organised will be seen as they render their version of the bishops NEW ANTHEM , BUDDY, CAN YOU SPARE A DIME.

  19. Its offical then , the answer from the vatican to Brennan of Ferns is quite simple, LEAN ON YOUR PARISHONERS MATE, MAKE THEM PAY FOR YOUR CHURCHS CRIMES, or rather, the bishops, archbishops and cardinals crimes, who found time while flying over the cuckoo`s nest, and comparing lobotomies, as to who could suppress the BIGGEST number of rapes committed on children in their parish or their diocese.

    All the ring kissing and fawning displays of these peacock like fops has got them nowhere, Ratzo and his cohorts have now made it QUITE plain that they are prepared to see the church in Ireland sink rather than get down in the bilges and start the bailing-out process. So much for unity in the church then.

    Brennan is the first to break ranks since the rome fiasco and his “plea” yesterday underlines the fact that this is Ratzo`s INDIRECT message to the abused children , not only of Ferns but throughtout Ireland, that there will be NO help of ANY natue coming from rome, financial or otherwise. That then begs the question, whats in his “letter” to the abused children of Ireland.?. No doubt it`ll start as they all do, with , MY DEARLY BELOVED CHILDREN , and end up with some “mystical interpretation” of, UP YOURS.!

    Would it not serve this bishop Brennan a little better if he would explain further on the means by which he arrived at such figures, 60,000 over twenty years.?. Its a sort of “final” figure which does NOT take into account FURTHER abuses which may take place.?. OR CASES YET TO EMERGE. Is he saying that this clerical paedophile problem is over.?.

    What is the yearly figure which leaves Ferns for Rome in the shape of PETER`S PENCE. What has been Ferns contribution to the coffers of Rome since the Ferns Report was published.?. Would the good bishop explain how these monies are decided by his diocesan finance controller, who decides what goes where and how such dividends are arrived at.? In fact , just HOW MUCH money is diverted to Rome on an annual basis from Ireland.?

    The all singing , all dancing bishop of Killaloe Willie Walsh only last year presented himself on RTE (again), dressed in his LACOSTE designer gear and informing his parish that his diocese had LOST SEVEN MILLION EURO`S through bad investments, he didn`t say , sorry good people , perhaps we SHOULD have invested this money in children, we`d have got a FAR BETTER return.?. But Willie, being Willie will soon recoup these losses, he`ll order BIGGER collection plates. But happily for Willie, his golf has not been affected by the loss of such a trifling sum.

    The comfortable retirement now being enoyed by Comiskey, the main architect of Fern`s present ill`s, how is his pension entitlements being met.?. Does HE receive any financial package from the diocese of Ferns.?. Are the parishoners still paying for HIS mistakes.?

    Reading Brennans meandering and misleading “call to arms” of his parishoners to pay for the churchs crimes is a bit old hat these days. Brennans “call to arms” should in fact have been directed at his OWN HIERARCHY and ROME for such funding, it was after all the bishops, archbishops and in one case a cardinal who are SOLELY responsible for suppressing heinous crimes against children, these overpaid and overfed throwbacks had the power to put a stop to these heinous crimes, they choose to ignore them, suppress them, dole out illegal payments to buy silence, intimidate those they had abused, intimidated their families, spent millions on lawyers to further abuse these victims of their paedohiles by threats, and further intimidation of “legal action” against victims. Such actions show this hierarchy for what it is, a bunch of unmitigated cowardly frock wearing spineless UNCLE TOMS to their slave driver in Rome.

    One man among them emerges to show the way, Diarmuid Martin, and what do they do, they close ranks, threaten Rome with MASS REVOLT unless Diarmuid Martin is MUZZLED. Among these bishops it is difficult to find one that you could accuse of being a progressive thinker, not one of them. If the Dail was run along the lines that these bishops run parishes and diocese`s, and presently, with the economic downturn, its hard to choose between them , then the return of anarchy would be inevitable.

    Brennans call for dosh from his parishoners amounts to Marie Antoinette`s “LET THEM EAT CAKE” , and its time Brennan and his other economic disaster making bishops did A SOUP RUN and acquaint themselves with REALITY.. All the remaining neanderthals will be holding their breath to see how Brennans pitch goes down with the parishoners before making THEIR “heartfelt plea” to once again stick their grubby crime laden hands into the pockets of parishoners.

    In view of Brennans “new” policy of putting a variant spin on “STEWARDSHIP FUNDING”, all self respecting BANK ROBBERS currently in Gaol must ALSO rethink THEIR policy of obtaining “funds” to pay for their “rehabilitation” following their robbing of the bank, in Brennans case , he asserts that the 750,000 currently being spent on “rehabilitation” for paedophiles is an “investment” against further “offending.? So there must ALSO be hope for bank robbers, past and present.? So when you leave the bank with your bag of swag, leave a note imploring the bank manager to pay for “therapy” for you and your gang. And say a few hail marys on the way out.

  20. Whilst I wonder if next Friday’s Verdict will be shocking, or not – as it might give an indication (although we know well enough already) of the state, the pulse and the temperature of the Nation, I am astounded at the sheer audacity demonstrated by programs on “Irish Missionaries”, or calls to church-goers to help with the bills of Church Abusers….ad nauseam.

    With regards to Memorials, and plays planned for our theatres, I felt that the film UNREPENTANT could be one model and certainly inspire. I enclose the link here in case some people didn’t know about it. Perhaps it will resonate with someone. Be VERY sure, that you are not alone.

    Here it is:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6637396204037343133

    Paddy, you’re everywhere…..lending your support to Victims of Thalidamide, Symphysiotomies or People with Disabilities. Don’t let a puncture slow you down if there’s anything I can do about it!

    Raymond

    One for All, All for One

  21. Charles O'Rourke

    Does it get more bizzare?, the Bishop of Ferns wants the laity to foot the bill for it not being able and unwilling to protect the very children of these parishioners from being raped by its own clergy.” We did not understand sexuell abuse of children” but they were the one preaching how wrong it was to put a rubber thing on our dick. They understod to take out insurance to protect them selves financialy against claims of abuse which they said they did not understand. Send the bill to the Vatican.

  22. Charles O'Rourke

    And in short given the rapid growth in the revealations of clerical crimes against children on the European mainland then would it not be very learning tö reach out to our brothers and sisters in Germany, Holland and Austria. In fact we are seasonded as to the ways of the Roman Church and as veterans can be of huge help to them. We allso have the European Court of Human Rights and something tells me that the very thought of being dragged before that court will send shudders down the spine of many a well fed cleric. So lets brush up on our German and french because this is not ending soon. If push comes to shove and the Irish survivors are pressed to the wall then lets go international. So get them e-mails flying to the mainland.

  23. HI PADDY

    ALL SURVIVORS HAVE PTSD,

    I have read some newspaper reports about PTSD

    and the amount of compensation payments to victems

    A CUT FINGER 430,000euro

    50,000 for a train driver who hit a goat with his train

    prison worker 110,000 traumatised by watching
    a traing exercise

    850,000 euro for a car shunt.

    KELLY&O’BRIEN
    Redress consultants moto we get you what they want you to have.

    christy

  24. Hanora Brennan

    Meetings held over the years did not represent me so when a survivor claims that 9 group representatives met with the Taoiseach he is deluded to think that they were speaking for the more erudite, amongst us. Yes, Paddy, I have minutes of meetings in Cork where Noel Barry promised the 300,000 + 64,000 aggravated damages. Prior to that Christy Heaphy promised the same amounts at a meeting in Manor Street in Waterford. I’ll dig them out for you and by all means post them. I’ve already been on to the three B’s regarding this issue!

  25. Charles O'Rourke

    Ann, it is we who are beautiful.

  26. Well said Charles! We can’t tell you how happy we are for this march, and it will also be nice to meet people whom I can relate to. I have always felt alone and ashamed. Thank God for Paddy’s site.
    Christy, as for the Redress Board it was so traumatic..it wasn’t explained by the solicitor of the process and there were no counsellors there, I took it lightly going and my family and myself paid a heavy price. I could not come out of that Hotel for 3 days. I was told by Judge Sean Ryan to ” sit down” and was asked why am I crying!?!?!.. I was trying to explain as best I could about the Nuns calling us all bastards! and his response?…”Now sure now I don’t think a nun would say those words”..I felt intimidated, crushed, and traumatised. My family were heartbroken.

    Two million would never be enough!..but we should all be paid what we are entitled to . Now.
    Take care everyone..see you at the March..24th March!
    Anne

  27. The last time I had Belgian beer, I was actually in Belgium. That wasn’t today or yesterday. To answer the question directly: yes, I do like Belgian beer. Paddy.

  28. The answer to your question about the Redress Board is simple: They are the rules as laid down by the government and whoever was involved in the setting up of the Redress Board. Paddy.

  29. Hi Paddy,

    Can anyone tell me why I can get 1 year in prison and a 25,000 Euro fine if I disclose anything about the Redress that I received, yet if I want to keep my identity and the fact that I was in an industrial school anonymous to all, including family, I can be compelled to disclose this information. For example, if I apply for a grant for say a family member to the Education Fund they will compel me to disclose my identification and the institution that I was in, in other words try and get a grant if you want to keep where you have been and whats happened to you anonymous.

    Christy

  30. Charles O'Rourke

    As regards the “Letter” then it must be one “hell” of a letter.

  31. Charles O'Rourke

    Now Paddy, How do you like Belgian beer?.

  32. Charles O'Rourke

    As thing are going we might as well call for demonstrations in Brussels together with our German, and more recently Dutch survivors. Now that would be to lift the whole issue to a new level. The march in Dublin is a step in that direction but taking the issue out of this jurisdiction may be the turning point of this sordid saga of clerical crimes. After all the Irish bishops have done just that albeit to Rome with known non results. Oh! I forgot about the “Letter”.

  33. Charles O'Rourke

    No I don,t want a letter from Rome, what I do want is like Bernadette O’ that every survivor can stop surviving and begin to live the life we as humans were meant to live. There is a sense of finality in the coming months and upon these months rest the years that are our lot. The quality of these years is determined by financial security so as survivors like Bernadette can buy that house near her kin so as to experience a sense of coming home. The march on the 24th of March in Dublin will heavily influence the out come of meetings behind closed doors. This is taking the struggle to where it belongs and what could possibly be lost by doing that?.

  34. Hanora. Do you have a copy of the minutes of that meeting you refer to so that I can put them on this website? Maybe I should just take the money, the aggravated damages, take up my chair and walk! What do you think? Paddy

  35. Paddy

    one more little gem
    ‘Where your treasure is,There will your heart be also’

    The Roman catholic church the most prosperous global corporation on EARTH.

    Christy

  36. You’re pure bould!!!! Naught but nice one! Paddy.

  37. HI PADDY

    Found a little gem,
    DEPT OF THE TAOISEACH meeting on 9/9/03

    AT I ”Changes in procedures that can shift cost burden onto parties who conduct themselves unreasonably during the Commissions investigation in to abuse” so CORI puts a bill in for 40EURO
    for legal costs.

    AMBIGUITY OR WHAT?

    Christy

  38. HI REDZER your post 28/02/2010 22-42

    WELL put, I agree with all you say,

    But as one who thinks survivors will not see one more red cent of redress saying 100,000$,
    it would be 100% more, A lot of ambiguity about this matter

    Christy

  39. A poor Religious Order !!!! That’s akin to an honest Fianna Fail politician.

  40. MINUTES OF MEETING WITH Taoiseach – 3 June 2009

    The Taoiseach, accompanied by the Ministers for Education and Science, Health and Children, Justice and Equality and Law Reform, the Minister of State for Children and Youth Affairs and senior Departmental officials, met 22 representatives from nine organizations representing survivors/victims at Government Buildings on 3 June 2009.

    The meeting lasted approximately from 7pm to 10pm.

    The Taoiseach welcomed the organisations’ representatives and thanked them for accepting his invitation. In his opening remarks he made the following points:

    He conveyed directly and personally to the organisations’ representatives a sincere apology on behalf of the Government, the State and all citizens for the failure to intervene, to detect children’s pain or come to their rescue.

    ·The Government did so, he said, having accepted the Commission’s recommendation that we admit that the abuse occurred because of failures of systems and policy, of management and administration and of senior personnel concerned with industrial and reformatory schools.

    ·He recalled the Government’s statement of 26 May, which pointed out that victims were placed in institutions by the State and the State had a duty of care to them, but they had been betrayed by the State. That fact was not lessened by the fact that abuse was perpetrated by specific individuals and in specific institutions.

    ·The Government was deeply conscious that the consequences of those events live on in the burdens carried daily by victims. For that reason, the needs of survivors are the Government’s particular priority.

    ·The Commission’s Report makes clear that it was right to establish a system of redress which enabled survivors to be compensated without having to go through the courts.

    ·The Government have accepted all the Commission’s recommendations and are committed to their |11 implementation, including those relating to the continuing support of victims and their needs. Addressing these needs and other issues arising from the Report, including the recommendation that a memorial be erected, would be done in consultation with the survivors organisations’ representatives. This evening’s discussion marked the beginning of a process of engagement with the organizations.

    ·In that context, the Government, and indeed Dail Eireann by a unanimous motion, have called on the religious Congregations to make further substantial contributions by way of reparation, on a basis that the public will be able to assess their significance by reference to the resources available to the Congregations and the level of expenditure incurred by the State through Redress and allied arrangements.

    ·The Government envisaged this contribution being available not just for public purposes but as a priority funding necessary services to victims, including some form of independent trust which would be available to support education and welfare purposes. The Government was beginning the process of engagement with the religious Congregations the next day, 4 June.

    ·He stressed that those who perpetrated crimes against survivors, no matter how long ago, must be made amenable to the law. Investigation and prosecution of crime is a matter for An Garda Siochana and the Director of Public Prosecutions and an Assistant Garda Commissioner has been tasked with examining the totality of the Commission’s Report. Also, criminal investigations are continuing in respect of a significant number of people.

    ·He also emphasized that as a result of legislation passed some years ago, there is no ambiguity or doubt: all those committed to industrial schools have no criminal record. There was, in reality, no criminal record in any event for those committed to industrial schools. However, it is now the law of the land, beyond any doubt, that no criminal record exists in such cases, or in the case of those convicted and committed to a reformatory on the basis that they did not re-offend within three years. The government is open to considering with the organizations ways in which this legal reality can be brought out more fully.

  41. Charles O'Rourke

    It must be remembered that survivors generally live lives which in quality are lower than non abused people. They carry the scars both Physically and psychologically throughout their lives. Their start in life has been stunned by poor health due to starvation and poor education. Their self esteem greatly damaged. When you do that to children you launch them on a life path of continued suffering. Then there is the sexual abuse which is in effect murder of the soul. It will take decades for Ireland to fathom the real effects of Ireland’s “Long Night” If we are to move forward as a people then embracing the truth of this period in a head on confrontation is our only hope. What price does that kind of suffering inflicted on the weakest by the strongest have?. This suffering has cost hundreds of lives as for many it has been impossible to bear. There are 15000 survivors that we know of out of a population of 170000 who went through the system of industrial schools, reformatories. 100 000 Euro is an insult to these people.

  42. Hanora Brennan

    In the short term, and on 24 March there will be no doubt that Redress applicants will make their feelings known on the adversarial, contemptuous treatment meted out to them by their legal reps and also the Redress Board. That does not even begin to cover the penurious amounts thrown at survivors. Some offered as low as 2,000! Sean Ryan cannot be found – not at the Redress Board, Commission or even the Law Library. I’ve left messages on a number of occasions and none of those calls have been acknowledged. Then the promises made by Noel Barry, Christy Heaphy and the Clonmel Bellows that we would be receiving 300,000 and 64,000 aggravated damages. Minutes of these meetings are out there so they cannot deny these ill informed promises to survivors. As for Brian Cowen, write to him care of the Dail, Dublin 2 and mark the envelope FREEPOST as any communication with the Houses is free! Get writing, Here in the South East our media blitz is under way! Contact your local radio stations, colleges, newspapers, and get the posters scattered around. Don’t forget your local churches and bishops’ palaces. You can also have a poster dropped in any free paper that circulates in your region. Failing that advertise on T shirts. Just DO SOMETHING. This is about YOU so show the world what you’re made of! I know you can and will do what’s right! GO FOR IT!!!!

  43. Brian Cowen seeking a further 200 Million from the religious is small beer compared to the REAL pressure he could apply, if he was so moved to do so.

    I`m sure Brian could do better, much better if, on behalf of the Nation he deemed it necessary, pursuant to the atrocities contained in the Murphy Report and the short period it covered, 1975-2004, that it inconclusively failed to give the TRUE picture of the suppression of child clerical sexual abuse by EVERY diocese in the country.

    1975-2004, is but a small chink of light into the activities of the hierarchy in Ireland, a mere foot in the door. A further Yvonne Murphy investigation covering the Mc Quaid era, and the Dublin archdiocese would throw up the real “gems” of corruption. On foot of that, the template applied by Yvonne Murphy should then be applied to every diocese in Ireland.

    The scope for such a move now exists as its apparent the vatican has washed its hands of the Irish “problem”, and benefited by dipping its greasy fingers into the Irish Tax Payers coffers, Leanza giving the two fingered salute, and an UP YOURS to the Dail, Im a !diplomat! and I don`t have to answer to any PLEBS, may come to regret his petty truculence. Ratzinger is so “moved” by the atrocities committed on tens of thousands of children in Ireland , that he has “consented” to pen a letter underlining “our weakening of faith” as the root cause of his marauding collared perverts being “tempted” by innocent children, thats a good one.!

    That Ratzinger seized the initative from this State to waylay the Dail is not in doubt. This bishops meeting SHOULD have been called by Fachtna Murphy and HELD AT THE BRIDEWELL, that was the proper place for it.

    What we got was this bunch of bishops arriving back in Ireland, having secured the muzzling of Diarmuid Martin, now left Eunuch like, and a “DIPLOMATIC INCIDENT” having been avoided by Ratzo and his co-horts.

    For this Countrys politicans to be offered the placebo dangled by Ratzinger to the effect that the JOY of heaven is realizable on Earth, does that leave them wiser and happy while ignoring these cute hoor sentiments which will shortly arrive from rome and be inflicted on massgoers in the shape of some “mystical religious” answer to the wholesale raping and abuse of a generation of Irish children.?

    It is pathetic to watch this State play second fiddle to the legal brains in rome who are pulling their strings. The Democracy and hard won freedoms of this Country are fast decaying by its failure to uproot itself from its reactionary slow pace replies to rome, and its failure to acquire a coherent system of practical ideas to wrest the strangehold these religious orders hold over this Country. The religious continue to hold a “loaded” gun to the head of ANY Taoiseach who would dare interfere with them, this “gun” being the running of schools and hospitals. The religious HAVE to be taken out of this equation. The Dail is seen as just another arm of this church.

    There is a march taking place in Dublin on the 24th March, it would be a fitting tribute if the Ferns Report, the Ryan Report, the Mc Coy Report and the Murphy Report, along with the Redress Act were borne by a horse drawn hearse, and these reports laid at the gates of Leinster House and its incumbents, with a note, PLEASE DO SOMETHING.! I await with great expectation the resurgence of Madame LeFarge, who no doubt has room in her basket for many heads.

  44. Its just gone 4.30am, standing on the balcony a few minutes ago, having a smoke I was watching a Fox on the footpath tearing the remnants of a chickens carcass apart.

    Reminds me of the religious, still trying to tear pieces off of us.

  45. Bernadette O'

    Babies and young children who were sentenced to detention by the criminal court to be detained in prison to be savagely inhumanly abused both sexually and mentally physically which left them so damaged that they turned to drink or drugs after being kicked out at the tender age of 16 alone hurt abused frightened having been locked up in prison for all or most of their childhoods which effected them so much the damage was so great they became addicted to whichever substance to block out the nightmares of abuse ,did those survivors get any help indeed did they get any hearing at the so called redress board ,>in one way I hope they didn’t go Because the so called Redress board is more Abuse and Extremely Frightening Shocking and downright Cruel ,But they must be compensated and helped Not by the religious or any groups ,a million should be paid to each person and so what if they Piss it up the wall or shove it up their noses or in their veins WHO could Moralize, Who could blame them.Who could judge them, these survivors must not be left out of receiving proper compensation .there is a list of the names of all of us survivors so all names must be checked so not one survivor is left out in the cold.All of us survivors who were given a criminal record as Babies and young children and detained into prisons must be compensated properly to the tune of Euro 500,000- 0ne Million each.I for one want so much to be able to buy my own house near where I was born I have just in 2008 found cousins and would love to be near enough to get to know them ,so far they are keeping a distance out of fear of what happened to me as they don’t know me, But if I had my own house I could invite them so they wouldn’t feel sorry for me.I don’t want SORRY.

  46. A survivor of those institutions is fully entitled to the complete benefit if doubt in terms of their potential earnings and quality of life that they might have achieved had they had the benefit of a full and complete upbringing in a family with good advantage.

    The life earning of a middle to senior civil servant founded on a full and free education may well reach several million euro with associated benefits to pension. Similarly a survivor was reasonably entitled to have a stable and normal life, family, health as would any other person.

    I don’t see for a moment why 100,000 Euro might be appropriate. I am not a residential survivor but it seems to me that such offers are absolutely derisory and borne out of need rather than calculated actuarial value. In 1988, American citizens typically at the time of the Phobal disaster, had a value of 180K USD for mid span life lost. The point is that these ‘values’ are very well known and calculate for accidents , illnesses and so on by insurance companies. there is no need for ambiguity as to what constitutes a good offer. But certainly, a 60-70 k Euro in today’s terms is nonsense and represents nothing but a begrudging offer on behalf of state.

  47. Charles O'Rourke

    Being more and more perceived as an instrument of power and void of any sacred sentiment is it no wonder that wealth is what it is all about. The clerical orders who ran child prisons in Ireland did it because it was highly profitable. When they saw how profitable it became they wanted more. They paid Rome protection money who in exchange controlled the Irish government by way of its laity. We had in fact a government that was and is the political wing of the Roman Church. Ireland was and is perceived as a dominion of Rome and this explains why the Roman ambassador could wave away any requests for cooperation by any figure within that administration. It has yet to happen that an Irish government openly challenges the Vatican State on any issue. If the Irish so called prime minister calls the Roman legions within its so called jurisdiction to pay the missing 200 million Euro then he risks a confrontation with Rome. After all that is the idea of protection. To any of you Catholics out there who feel robbed of your church by these men ,” If you want it back come and claim it”. To think it all began with a simple carpenter.

  48. Paddy I don’t think Chick publications is a company run by girls but ya never know! They might be getting their own back for 1600 years of denigration and persecution.

  49. Cowan has made a lot of statements. I’m not sure which on you mean. I suggest you check out
    and do a search for The Taoiseach’s speeches on Child abuse or whatever. Best wishes. Paddy.

  50. Is it just my warped sense of humour Frank or is it a coincidence that the publication is by “Chick Publications!” Paddy.

  51. I don’t know how anyone can expect people who kneel respectfully on Sunday for a holy wafer and points in the afterlife to go to work on Monday and investigate the same organisation they are followers of. The same organisation that they’ve been deluded into thinking is in charge of bookings for only post death hotel worth getting into.

    I think the DUP should be brought in from Ulster to investigate the Popes legions.

    The Vatican Billions

    by Avro Manhattan – Chick Publications
    Chapter 1
    http://www.cephasministry.com/catholic_vaticans_billions_1.html

  52. HI.
    When I land at Dublin airport on 24th March where do I tell the driver to take me for the demonstration. Perhaps you could add further details on your site. (or have I missed them)
    Best wishes.
    Paul.

  53. Paddy,
    Can you check at your e-mails and print Cowans Dail statement?

    In my humble opinion it is vital that survivors can view this and comment on your site, I have read and read and read it again and I still feel that the thing is full of holes and survivors will not get a red cent! (we are certainly not going to get a meaningful apology from the Catholic Church).

    Christy

  54. Because everything is vague regarding what’s going on between the government and religious orders, not to mention the secret meetings between Bishops and people claiming to represent those of us who were abused while institutions, it’s almost impossible to know what’s going on. I’m sorry I can’t be of more help. Paddy.

  55. Hi Paddy,

    The 348 million Euros works out about
    30,000 Euros for each survivor, well for me they can shove it up their purple frocks. I was going to say their ass but that would be far too impolite, what I would settle for is 100,000 Euros for every man and woman survivor of institutional abuse.

    This works out nearly the same as the State paid out to survivors and is easily affordable by the Catholic Church, it is not as if the Catholic Church did not benefit financially from the institutions. Think about this, the Catholic Church took a percentage of all monies coming into the institutions, capitation grants, earnings, etc, etc. The Bishop, the Archbishop and the Cardinal all had their cut.

    Paddy, what I think is that all survivors should write to Mr Cowan and tell him to seize all of their assets and from those assets make an award of 100,000 Euros to each survivor. Like I have said before it is put up or shut up time.

    Christy

    PS Is it me or does that article above (Sunday Tribune 21/02/10) give the impression that the 348 million Euros will go to the Irish Exchequer, just a thought!

  56. Only a drop in the ocean to the amount of wealth the Vatican possesses.

    The Vatican does not own any wealth in reality as everything in its possession was given for free by Mother Earth for the equal dispersal to all her Earth children.

    The Vatican cannot provide a receipt from Mother Earth for any property or gold etc which it claims to own.

    Every penny the Vatican possesses was given by others or stolen from others and hoarded in order to keep the rest of the sheep poor, in fear etc.

    Our Government is a slave of the Vatican and not our servant, like it ought to be.

    No money will ever compensate for the pain and suffering inflicted by the church and endured by all innocent children and adults worldwide.

  57. Was Brian Cowens speech about “Justice”, or merely the upholding of a long tradition warped by the vicious assumption that each generation will substantially live amid the conditions which governed the lives of our Fathers and Mothers, and designed to transmit those conditions to mould with equal force, the passing on of “deference” to a church despite its inherent and vile corruption.

    To live presently among the conditions which governed the lives of our Fathers, ie, church repression, Mc Quaid thuggery, Connells love of “mental reservations”, mitre “infiltration” of the State, opus dei diehards and all the other “sleepers” we presently contend with, would be tantamount to us “modern” day Fathers and Mothers, Grandfathers, and Grandmothers literally handing OUR Children and Grandchildren to the care of a system which only knows corruption as the medium in which it can thrive and exist. Such a system has NO recognition of Justice, and less of the Law.

    It needs NO further explanation to the above than a mere mention of the Ferns Report, the Ryan Report, the Mc Coy Report, the Murphy Report, and the awaited Cloyne Report.

    As yet, no prosecutions have ensued as a direct result of the four reports, no hurt has been felt by these religious sects, no public sense of accountability has been experienced by Survivors that the Law is taking its course , with “Justice” as its ultimate aim . (While I’m waiting for such an event, I`ll grow a head of hair).

    A bunch of cross dressers heading of to Rome , whose intent we now learn was to INSTRUCT Rome in how to compose a “letter” to victims of CLERICAL SEXUAL TERRORISM in Ireland.?. Twenty six of these mitred bonces with goodness knows how many “spokespielers”, advisors, helpers, legal advisers, ring polishers, houseboys, and other assorted cling-ons, merely resulted in PARISHIONERS footing the bill for these floozies and their entourages in the City Of Sin.

    That they have suffered “embarrassment” is NOT in doubt, but that’s ALL they have suffered.

    We have now reached the stage that it would be “criminal” for parents to send their children to church WITHOUT ADEQUATE PROTECTION. What PURPOSE does such a church serve, when children are now viewed as “at risk” while in them.?.

  58. “””The cabinet now has to decide whether it should sign off on this offer or seek a further €200m from the Orders to bring the split up to 50:50.”””

    The above paragraph, as a lesson in goobbeldegook, raises a few questions. If the State is to seek a further 200 million from these religious orders, are the State in possession of knowledge pertaining to “other” assets missed by the auditors appointed to ascertain the full extent of the wealth of these religious sects.?. Have the auditors appointed by Brian Cowen finished their work.?. If so, it appears their findings are incomplete, somewhat lacking would be an understatement if the State are prepared to ignore the auditors findings , and seek a further 200 million .?. Would the State and Cabinet involve itself in such a folly if , in their estimation the 200 million was not there.?.

    Either State and Cabinet are satisified with the auditors final report, or they are not, and the above article indicates they are not.

    Who, or what body beside the Education Department have looked at this report of the auditors. The Education Department, like the religious orders are defendants in this whole question of institutional warfare conducted on children . Are they the “best” people to brief the Cabinet.?. Certainly not. Has this auditors report undergone any analysis by legally competent and forensic accountants on behalf of Survivors.?. Very doubtful.

    The task set by Brian Cowen to the auditors was simplistic in outlook, and based on revulsion displayed by the Nation following publication of the Ryan Report, leading to an emotional address by the Taoiseach to the Country as a whole, while also going Global.

    A brief summary of his speech indicated the following, putting the chaff aside, is seen by myself as follows, and merely a personal view, “” institutions and those running them, those responsible for them, who enriched themselves through the criminal misuse of children involving unjust and extreme acts of unparralled savagery and barbarity which can only be described as crimes against humanity and the untold suffering it caused, must, MUST make good for the victims losses. As is obvious, you CANNOT make good a lost or stolen childhood,but the material losses suffered as a DIRECT result of those stolen childhoods , can and MUST be made good.”” Thats how I see Brian Cowens speech. Despite his omission to state the bald fact that MATERIAL RESTITUTION IS ALWAYS GIVEN RELUCTANTLY. This being merely ANOTHER example of the State FAILING IN ITS DUTY OF CARE.

    The whole Country has presently been anaesthesized while awaiting a “letter” from rome which will serve as a “benchmark” to state, “” right you gurriers, your healing starts from now, no more crap about rape, buggery, torture, sodomy, forced labour, starvation, being wrested from your families, being illegally imprisoned, having your constitutional rights buried, being whipped naked in showerooms, performimg acts of sexual beastiality on animals, locked up in dark cupboards, having your babies sold, being buggered at your Grandfathers funeral, who cares about ten little girls being abused at an altar, hey, thats what altars are for , sacrifices,! so what if mentally and physically impaired children were abused, sure now, did`nt the brothers of charity do a grand job, ok you gurriers, so the priest made a mistake with his crucifix on that young girl, whats up with making rosarys if your hands are bleeding, its time you gurriers SHUT UP and started taking THE WAFER AGAIN, get religion, go to mass, lets start this “HEALING PROCESS”, lets get the show on the road, my bishops will be explaining to you gurriers that we are after all, all human, prone to the odd mistake or two, you people need to learn how to FORGIVE, my bishops will show you the way, ad infinitum.

    And no doubt, the “famous” letter will arrive without a F********* stamp.

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