The Irish Times – Saturday, April 17, 2010
Survivors split after meeting Taoiseach
PATSY McGARRY Religious Affairs Correspondent
ABUSE VICTIMS and representative groups were bitterly divided yesterday following a four-hour meeting with the Taoiseach and a number of his Cabinet colleagues on Thursday night.
John Kelly of Irish Soca said last night that neither he nor six other survivor groups represented at the meeting wanted any more to do with the Government on the issue. Their intention now, he said, was to seek meetings with the religious congregations to ensure that the additional €200 million being sought from them by the Government goes into a compensation fund which will be administered by employees of the abuse groups.
Thursday’s meeting came immediately after three hours of talks between the Taoiseach and his Cabinet colleagues and representatives of 18 religious congregations which ran residential institutions for children investigated by the Ryan commission.
Mr Kelly said he was “taken aback” and “shell-shocked” at the later meeting when the Taoiseach “dropped the bombshell” that just €110 million from contributions by the congregations was to go into a fund for former residents of the institutions, which would be administered by the State.
At that point, Michael O’Brien of the Right to Peace group walked out, he said. Later, so did Tom Hayes of the Alliance group, Christy Heaphy of the Right of Place group, as well as representatives of Justice and Healing, Irish Survivors of Institutional Abuse, and an international survivors’ group.
The Taoiseach was called “a thief, a deceiver and a cheat” and was told that the monument to abuse victims recommended by the Ryan report should be “a statue of him with a balaclava”.
He said that “to describe the meeting as ‘angry’ would be mild”.
Christine Buckley of the Aislinn centre in Dublin, however, criticised some at the meeting. She said they were “destructive from the start and used very aggressive tones even before the Taoiseach opened his mouth”.
She welcomed the new fund and the further contributions from religious congregations, although she felt it was “a disappointing figure”. Still, she said, “you have to remember, the religious orders didn’t have to contribute another penny. They did so because of public outcry following Ryan,” she said.
She was pleased with the Taoiseach’s promise to look into the situation of women who had been in Magdalene laundries, and the issue of late applications for redress. Others pleased with the meeting included Mick Waters of Soca UK, Paddy Doyle, Noel Barry of the Right of Place group, and London councillor Sally Mulready, she said.
The Taoiseach had been “extremely patient throughout and very attentive”, she said. He was accompanied at the meeting by Tánaiste Mary Coughlan, Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern, Minister for Health Mary Harney, and the Minister for Children, Barry Andrews.
HI PADDY KATHLEEN MY FRIEND WAS AT WATERFORD MEETING LAST NIGHT. WHY IS NOEL C BARRY GETTING A HUGE SALARY OUT OF OUR MONEY? HE WANTS THE MONEY PUT IN TRUST AND TO CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL. THIS IS WHAT HE IS SAYING TO THE GOVERNMENT. HE IS AFRAID IF THE MONEY GOES TO THE SURVIVORS HE WOULD BE OUT OF POCKET I SAY EVERYONE ON THIS WEBSITE STAND UP AND GET RID OF THESE PEOPLE ON OUR MONEY WHAT A CHEEK OH PADDY I’M SO MAD
KATHLEEN/PADDY. THIS WAS THE QUESTIONNAIRE LAST NIGHT. ANSWER “YES” OR “NO”
1 STATE TO DISTRIBUTE AS THEY SEE FIT.
2 PART OF TRUST FUND.
3 PART TO GO TO REDRESS BOARD COST.
4 NATIONAL CHILDREN HOSPITAL
5 TRUST FOR HEALTH AND EDUCATION FOR SURVIVORS
6 SURVIVORS TOTAL CONTROL OVER MONEY DISTRIBUTED
7 RELIGIOUS TO HAND IT OVER TO STATE CONTROL 8 RELIGIOUS TO GIVE TO SURVIVORS CONTROL ONLY THAT’S IT PADDY WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT NOW
Who are these people to ask questions such as those above? Who do the represent? What sort or answers did they get? What was the purpose of the questionnaire? Who is going to get the answers given to the questionnaire? Are they going to be sent to the Government? It all seems very ‘dodgy’ to me. How may people who write to this website have received such a questionnaire? After all, these people claim to represent “survivors of abuse”. Perhaps one or more of the organisers of the meeting would post a message/comment here so that we all know what’s happening and also so that secrecy is eliminated. Paddy.
There will be no meeting in The Metropole Hotel, Cork. I phoned Right of Place in Cork and was told ‘no meeting would be held there until they receive the minutes from the last meeting with the government.’ I was also told that they didn’t have the funding and that they had to use their own money to hold the meetings in Waterford & Kerry. guess I’ll be waiting for that questionaire for another while Paddy.
What I’d like to know is by what right does anyone arrange these questionnaires and then make decisions. I didn’t hear Mr. Barry make any of these suggestions to Government at a meeting on the 15th April 2010. I now invite Mr. Barry to write to this site and say where he got his mandate from and by what authority he makes the decisions/questionnaires as discussed a meeting which few if any people knew anything about. I also invite Mr. Barry to tell us how many people attended the meeting and to let us see the minutes of same. Paddy
Paddy. Has any one thought of going to the courts of human rights in Strasbourg never mind what the Redress Board says. I don’t think we will be breaking the law to tell the world what happened I’m not afraid. No better woman. If we’re not getting anywhere. Why not. I would start by saying forgive me for troubling you with what has been troubling me for years I think you will find it self explanatory I want to fight for the survivors and please God they will get justice. Thanks Paddy
If you don’t mind, I would like to sing from the same hymn sheet as yourself Paddy. I am also intrigued as to who gave Mr Barry the mandate (any mandate) to set out a questionaire for survivors (by invitation only is appears) to fill in. What are the results of the questionaire and indeed what was the purpose? The only reason we knew of a meeting on 13th May was because someone was good enough to post it on here otherwise it would have been yet another surreptitious sequence of events denied to many survivors of instutional abuse. Denied by the very people who claim to represent us.
I would appreciate knowing who chaired the meeting, who took the minutes, how many people attended, how long did it go on for, the real purpose of the meeting and what is the next stage (what does Mr Barry plan on doing with the results of the questionair). I am all ears.
Let’s get on with the duet David, we might even make it a Christmas number 1. The intrigue that surrounds people such as Mr. Barry – there are others – is worthy of a Bond film or perhaps a Monty Python film. I’d like to know the answers to all the questions you want answers to. There stands and open invitation to Mr. Barry and anyone else purporting to representing “survivors of abuse” to use this site and tell us all what their agenda is and by what authority they ‘represent’ people who where abused while in institutional care.
Let the singing commence David. Are you, bass, baritone or soprano. I’m rough and ready rock n’ roll guy myself. Paddy.
I’ve held the view and expressed the opinion many times that the place where ALL cases of abuse against ALL people in Ireland and indeed elsewhere Is Strasbourg. The Redress Board is far from the ideal place to hear such cases. Paddy.
Some people say there was a meeting, others say there wasn’t. It’s all “up in the air” Rose. Let’s see if my invitation to ALL groups claiming to representing people who were abused to contribute to this website is taken up. Perhaps then and only then the truth will come out. Paddy.
There most definetly was a meeting held in Waterford on Thursday evening, Paddy. However, there wil NOT be one held in Cork until the ‘minutes from the last meeting’ with the government have been received by Right of Place, Mr John Ross of Right of Place, Cork, told me this when I phoned them this morning.
first of all paddy
i believe mr barry is to step down and already the choice to replace him is from those who run the branch groups.
all meetings of the past were, members were asked to vote there was NO BALLOT BOX for written proof for or against.
the only mandate i know of is the list of people from the very beginning who asked for support from this group regarding redress, accommodation, and so on. mr barry uses these names and address as his titlement to decide on their behalf what he and his committee think is best.
these people are unaware their names are being used for decisions he is making on behalf of them without their consent.
remember a lot are very old others uneducated, sick and so on what chance have they?
there was never a form to fill out on what each individual needs of survivors. they they were just handed or sent forms from the offices of redress education and counseling how much was spent blah blah.
everything was decided by private meetings behind closed doors known as board/branch meetings.
then survivors were invited to large survivor meetings to choose the ideas these people have set up just as this list.
any questions that put their ideas down were pushed aside.
the sheer ego of some of these people is terrible, some survivors were even scared to object, because this group was all a survivors had at the time remember.
these latest area meetings are a set up for the big meeting in july so i have been informed.
i see this as promoting their ideas only (my opinion) new tactics for new leaders.
this list has only met some people not all. i have never been given it for sure.
PADDY IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE A STRONG HONEST PERSON THERE WHEN THEY WANT TO CHOOSE A LEADER WE MAY GET OURSELVES A SPOKESPERSON AFTER ALL.
ALL HERE COULD GO AND MAKE SURE VOTES ARE IN BALLOT AND ALL HERE CAN VOTE FOR THE OBVIOUS CHOICE
((YOU PADDY)).
WE THEN CAN TRAVEL TO ALL GROUPS AND LET SURVIVORS KNOW THEY COULD HAVE A VOICE AT LAST.
close all the groups have a leader/spokesperson and set up an office for survivors to be heard individually with proper staff who could work on behalf of the PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE.
if survivors are having problems with social services, housing, health departments we as survivors can then have back up to educate these government offices of the possible difficulties survivors have in areas of their lives.
this would save money and waste of our resources.
NO MORE GROUPS.
AS YOU SAID PADDY “NOTHING ABOUT US WITHOUT US”
Just found this website. In answer to Robert, April 24, 2010 at 11:16
I was raised entirely in the “care” system in England. partly at Sisters of Mercy Nazareth House in Southend on Sea, Essex. It was not a bad experience. But I accept that children in Ireland had a very bad experience – my step-brother Barry was ‘raised’ by UnChristian ‘Brothers’ in Galway. The effects of this upbringing described in your posting would pertain to any child raised outside a family, but the abuse (psychological and physical) would have made a bad situation worse. Barry is right to be angry at the cowardly self-interest of Irish politicians and their fellow travellers. Your insights into the effects of your upbringing mirror my own thoughts on this matter. The non-religious ‘care’ providers were no better than the ones who profess adherence to religious orders. Human beings are naturally sadistic and cowardly – whatever situation they find themselves in. The feckless males and females who brought uncared for children into the world deserve as much censure as the people who chose but failed to care for them. I hope your insights into your situation do not embitter you, or cause you more anguish than the unworthy creatures who gave rise to your thoughts.
Best wishes,
LIam Curley
Hi Paddy,
Not posted for a while as this battle can drain one’s energie’s and there’s way too much talking for my liking.
Kathleen, Rose, Liam, and anyone else I’ve forgot..I would like to let you know that it would be Legal to take this to the Court of Human Right’s. I have been informed but I would like to strongly suggest that you do not put a vote for no ” leader ” or Group…
Your are correct in the fact that these Group’s are on regular income’s and should that stop so wwould certain monie’s and regular wage’s.
I’m afraid the only person I am aware of who is actually fighting for ” our ” money to be paid out equally is Mr Micheal O’Brien. This is fact.
I am not going to get involved in anything anymore other go after what I am entitled to and what’s rightly mine.
I also know that The religious would be willing to give the monie’s to the survivor’s rather than give it to the state as the State are just as much to blame and DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAKE OUR MONEY!
Alot of bad has gone on, but recently I am aware via certain information that there are still good people, religious of the new age, who would like to see that money go direct to the survivor’s.
So ask yourselve’s this now.
1.-Who is stopping this money from being dispursed equally..wether or not a small amount or large amount.
2.-What are you going to do now?
3.-Do you spend your time talking amongst yourselve’s much longer?
4.-Or do you ask directly to the Government-or Religious direct by personal letter to tell them you would like your share?
It is that simple..do not keep going with a particular mindset. It is your money. now why don’t you ask!
Anne.
Dear Paddy,
You sound a tad defensive there Paddy??..now if you read back over my message clearly you will know that I never suggested/insinuated you, directly or indirectly personally have ” Hoodwinked ” anyone! and I am now seriously considering why I would receive such a strong response from yourself!?!…now that did shock me coming from you, being such a caring and intelligent man. (Not being patronising by the way, I genuinely mean that)
I was simply giving my oppinion/comment’s to other survivor’s who are also looking for ” compo “(such a horrible way to put it like that by the way paddy, compensation for year’s of abuse and a life of misserry would have been more sufficient, but coming from a fellow survivor as yourself, and put like that make’s it sound awful!) as you suggested in your mail to me, who have every right to do so!
I wonder if the like’s of Rose, ken or any of the other’s who feel strongly about their right to receive compensation had such a response about wanting, well, actually needing in most cases, compensation which their rightly entitled to?? You have never suggested, or offended/commented, or rather made them feel like you made me feel when you put that in your message to me. I was genuinely shocked with that comming from you..hence my strong message in return.
Paddy, I could easily say you also offended me. In saying in a round about way that because I ” want compo”, that’s all I’m interested in! now that is absolutely unfair and untrue! and quite insulting actually.
I have been watching the comment’s on your site and feel weary and sad for other survivor’s who look to you for the answers..granted thank’s to you they can communicate with eachother, it’s a good job! all I was doing was expressing my opinion, just as the other’s have.
Would you agree, this subect has been going round in circle’s Paddy? It’s dragged on for a while.
Also,make of it what you will with regard’s to my comment about being “Hoodwinked” you probably know much more than most patrick.
I will say for now to other survivors on your site, good luck for now, keep your eye’s and ear’s open and use what God give you for you have it within yourselve’s to get what you rightly deserve, without being made feel guilty for wanting that.
Please bare in mind Paddy, there are survivors of child abuse who haven’t been compensated, or who are deperately struggling, or feel now, and especially since they’ve woken up and realised ” This is is” We’ve been/lived through hell and it’s took all these years, and still in deperate need for financial assistance, compensation..e.c.t Alot are not as comfy as some other Group leader’s/survivor’s e.c.t !?!?!?
Like I said in my last message I am now awaiting another response from Mr Cowen, Taoseach and will take thing’s further in result of that response myself.
Take care everyone..and godbless, keep alert and remember you can do this yourselves.
Anne.
It appears you’ve misinterpreted my response. I note also that the only issue you refer to Anne, is money when in fact I asked a lot of questions regarding your comment. I don’t believe I got it wrong when reading your post/comment and if I did, I apologise. Paddy.
After reading Ann’s comment I decided to send the following to those that govern our country.
Hello… Wake Up.. Is anyone of you listening?…. The State & The Religous Congregations were all responsible for what happened in to Innocent Children in Industrial Schools…..What right do the government and religous congregation have,to make decisions as to how ANY MONEY (which rightfully belongs to the VICTIMS of industrial school abuse,) should be spent. ? Surely it is up to the victims to decide. Not all victims are represented by groups. Many are out there not knowing what’s going on. Why not give everyone who went to redress a say.? Listen to us, we were silenced for long enough.We were deprived of our childhood. Please, let us have some bit of dignity in what’s left of our lives.
Well said anne.
Paddy apology is no good the damage is done.
Damage – what damage? Paddy.
What i meant by “the damage is done” paddy is that you verbally attacked Anne for what she wrote. Even when it wasn’t directed at you. I am sure Anne was hurt by your reply. No apology can change what was said. The damage is done.
I myself was shocked by your reply’s also.
ken
Ken. I must defend myself when it comes to an accusation of “verbally attacked Anne for what she wrote”. Just this minute, I’ve checked what I replied to Anne and I can’t for the life of me see how it could be construed as a verbal attack. Had I “verbally attacked” anyone I would be the very first to apologise and indeed did so if I had caused offence. Those who know me, know that I don’t do verbal attacks.
I’m sorry that you were “shocked” by my reply. Paddy.
Dear Paddy,
I do not wan’t to offend you or anyone else. You know well that I have looked to you in the past for advice on these thing’s, but unfortunately and with all due respect, there have been time’s when you have made it clear you do not wish to get involved with the financial need’s of survivor’s, this also became apparent to us when on the last ninute you did not give any help/support to your friend Barry Clifford who tried his best with the March, in fact I saw that as a deterrant. And yet you hoped for support in your own protest in regards to right’s for disabled people at the Theatre(rightly so) and yet this is exactly what your site represent’s! which is not only the subject of child abuse but for letting people express themselve’s and connect with eachother, which is fantastic, however, would you not agree that this is a topic that is frequently discussed and rather detrimental to most survivor’s now who at this stage in their live’s finally deserve peace, comfort and joy. Yes the dirty old word money come’s up here again! but it’s the truth and every survivor deserves and is rightly entitled to that.
I mean come on Paddy, you know there’s alot of money been contributed in the last few month’s from the Religious Order’s and you(well I best not say you) but certain people really expect those survivor’s to not ask for what they deserve?? But yet certain people are funded and donated to, for website’s, Group Leader’s and for what? in what way will this help survivor’s at this late stage in life? It’s damm insulting. As if we haven’t been abused, destroyed, insulted enough…infact humilliated and took the piss out, excuse my french!
Ken, thankyou for your kind word’s and I know you mean Paddy no disrespect, it’s a difficult one this isn’t Ken???.. but I have reservation’s which I will not divulge as yet;I am waiting for the right time and response to my letter from the Taoseach.
Rose, well done to you for writting direct to Mr Cowen as you have made the right move there.
I would suggest all survivor’s do the same.
Christine Buckley, Mick Water’s and the like’s of them do not represent me..remember they asked and they got..do not let them take what is your’s you have a legal right to go direct to the Government as it is illegal what they are doing with our money.
They should not be giving monie’s to Groups e.c.t as these group’s are doing nothing for us! Unless they can prove it! and this does not include “Tea and buiscuit’s”
They were not there for me when I was homeless for two years! it say’s it all really and sadly although Paddy’s site is a benefit to discuss important subject’s of child abuse e.ct it should be noted that Paddy does attend certain meeting’s and is respected by Government therefore, he would have been able to not just talk about who’s going to get a ” pettition” for him or anyone else to speak on our behalf,but go directly with a list of all your name’s stating your thought’s, comment’s want’s and need’s for immediate action. I wonder why you havne’t done that yet Paddy??….You have made it clear that you don’t agree or get involved with the like’s of Christine Buckley..or any group’s, however you clearly have a following on your site and I would of thought with the connection’s and information e.c.t you would have been able and willing to help those loyal follower’s on your site who look to you, especially with you having direct contact with Mr Cowan.
Take care everyone..I repeat, your money is sat in their Accoun’t waiting to be dispersed, make sure you strongly demand what’s yours. Have no leader take your money, they did not do your sentence!
Godbless…Annne
Kathleen A BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE TO ANN AND ROSE HERE HERE I COULDN’T AGREE MORE NOW MAYBE WE WILL GET SOMETHING DONE EVERYONE EMAIL MR COWEN I DID. ALL STAND TOGETHER AND BE ONE. COME ON. THANKS
well said Anne i quoted a while ago on this site that every one should write to Brian cowan ,and anyone else ,including cori i have written to them all and had replies from all the departments and made it quite clear that we in the uk do not want a trust fund ,but we would like a voice at last we are no longer children and will be no longer kept silent ,our opinions matter , after all we were the victims ,no one speaks for us ,i can speak for myself as can most survivors the goverment should take the time to visit each and every group and get a better idea of what the survivors want and need and we are old enough to decide what to do with our money and how we use it,and make our own decisions at last i am not accountable to the church now or the irish goverment they owe us big time ,so its time they did the right thing and put an end to it all so we can move on at last ,we are after all, all getting older .
Dear Paddy,
Firstly I’d like to thankyou for continuing to put up my message’s.
Secondly I’d also like to thankyou for your comment’s made in the News papers today in regard’s to how most survivor’s are feeling about the further contributions e.c.t
Bernadette, Rose, Kathleen, Ken and Patrick..I’m sorry If I’ve missed anyone out there! I would like to thankyou on such lovely comment’s and support..also, I am absolutely thrilled that you have taken the first step to write to Mr Cowen-Taoseach to ask for what you are legally entitled to.
There were commitment’s made which are on record by the Taoseach/Cori in May/June 2009 stating clearly that survivor’s would receive further contributions, and by Law this has to be in affect. That money has been donated by the Cori who have stated regularly that there will be further contribution’s to each survivor.
Firstly I would like to ask some simple question’s- I don’t want a reply, but I want you to consider the following very carefully.
1). Do any of the Survivor’s of Child Abuse suffer with Mental Health condition’s, such as chronic Anxiety, severe Depression , Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, OCD, Agraphobia e.c.t?-This is without taking into account physical condition’s. These are serious life obstructing condition ‘s that many soldier’s experience. It totally destroy’s the quality of live’s. Also, then there are those who sadly turned to drug’s/alcohol because the pain of life was too unbearable..and what might have been a good, kind hearted and caring person, through no fault of his/her own, turn to drink/drug’s to take all the pain away. They then become outcast’s in society and looked upon as a no good for nothing.
2).Is there any survivor who would like to apply to the Education Finance Board for College/University Fee’s and if so, would any of the above symptoms affect you in anyway in regard’s to further Education/courses taken?- No disrespect to any survior who would rightly so enjoy to take up such courses. I am only going of my own case as I am 63 this year and under The Mental Health Team. I suffer terribly with chronic Anxiety, Depression, Agraphobia e.c.t Also, my son has Brain Injury and my Daughter has M.e. So personally there will be no going back to University at my age, (and I doubt very much after 10 yrs In St Joseph’s, 38 yrs trying to look after my Husband who was in a coma for some time and also suffered brain damage and passed away in 2005.) that I would even contemplate, rarther, it would absolutely not be possible to do so, and I’m guessing, well actually, know that most survivor’s suffer most of the above. This has been proven with psychiatry Report’s, G.P’S e.c.t
3).Has any of the survivor’s of abuse used the funded services for Counselling at any time?-once again, going of my own experience I have not applied nor received any Counselling as to be quite honest,and for me personally, the thought of going back over my past which I would rather forget (and in most cases cannot) is just as bad as living the abuse all over again. Bearing in mind the statement I had given whilst giving my evidence at The Redress Board, was designed/pre-meditated to break us that much, that the desired affect of that out come did exactly what was intended, which was to throw you in at the deep end with money grabbing and heartless Solicitor’s forcing you to accept ” good offer’s ” and leave you feeling guilty, broken, abused some more, and for me personally it took month’s to get over and I ended up in Hospital with all related stress illnesses.
The compensation paid was not to Highcourt Payout’s.
What we need now is IMMEDIATE financial assistance, for living, debt’s, bill’s,Loan’s, comfort and maybe just a little bit of joy, and for our children/grandchildren. And I do beleive that many did take out further Loans as the result of being ” advised ” from group leader’s that we were to receive more contribution’s so our now actually worse of. This in itself is illegal because these group’s are funded by the Cori/Government and should have been Audited in a way all information was correct. They are charity’s and have to apply for that status so, it is the same as if it were consumer right’s e.c.t. You have been Ill advised.
Now, wait for your reply’s everyone, I will be intouch. There is actually a legal way in which we are entitled to do this and if thing’s are dragged on anymore I think there will be other Government Official’s, Corri, Group Leader’s, The Ryan Commission ec.t that could legally be investigated for serious misconduct. And also sued once again for the nature in which this was dealt with, leading many survivor’s past and present to take their live’s, suffer further as a result of the case being dragged out and denied for many many years.
Take care for now..and Godbless..
Anne
Hello Paddy i understand where Ann is coming from I too suffer from post traumatic stress and anxiety been on tablets for years can’t cope without them been to counselling but the memories never leave when i go to bed at night and the first thing in the morning always there like demons AND ITS NOT MY FAULT it’s the way I was treated from eight months to sixteen years of age I feel for Ann and so many people out there God help us all and the damage they have done thanks Paddy
Kathleen,
Thankyou for your kind words and to everyone else yet again.
Well it’s Sunday and should be our rest day but here I am again discussing the same old issue, sadly.
Kathleen I totally understand what you meant about standing on that landing. When I first came over to England, I slept under my bed for over a year! the constant feeling of living on nerves for so long was so damaging for all of us.
I have noticed that this particular Topic that has been going on for many weeks will not be seen by all general public, and of course The Government/Taoiseach e.c.t as there is only a direct link for us already on the Mailing list. I wonder if “The Important ” one’s can see what is going on here. Also there is no need to worry right now because we could all meet, even if there was 20 of us I bet that figure would be more on the list of ” certain Group Centre’s ” that’s for sure.
What I’m saying here is that no one is representing us, so therefore we have a right to represent ourselves, hence dealing with the issue with The Taoiseach/Cori e.c.t
They have LEGAL OBLIGATION to converse, comply and provide, just as they have with the Group Leader’s who took it upon themselve’s to represent us. It is the same thing.
I’ll be interested to see if and who get’s further reply’s from the Taoiseach in the coming week’s. I personally will only allow this to go so far and then will take necessary action if need be.
Group Leader’s certain Individual’s have many thing’s going on for them, providing them with a good and regular income. We deserve the same, as in a regualr wage, no? or the correct compensation and with IMMEDIATE EFFECT.
There is NO compromise. The one’s that tell you it’s not all about the money are VERY financially stable.
Thus far I shall be careful what I say, but please stay intouch, thankfully to the good few I have now connected in the last couple of weeks make’s it easier to get the compensation we deserve. It is our’s and it is illegal for anyone else to keep that money.
Kind regard’s and please take care..
Anne
hallo paddy i would love to get in touch with ann ive no idea how but if ann doesnt wish i will respect her wishes thanks paddy
just received email from taoiseach office it reads THE TAOISEACH MR BRIAN COWEN HAS ASKED ME TO ACKNOWLEDE RECEIPT OF YOUR EMAIL WHICH HAS BEEN REFERRED TO THE OFFICE OF TANAISTE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION AND SKILLS FOR ATTENTION AND REPLY HERE WE GO AGAIN PASSING THE BUCK I DONT WANT TO DEAL WITH MARY COUGHLAN DONE WITH SKILS AND EDUCATION SO I TAKE IT THAT EVERYONE WHO HAS WRITTEN TO MR COWEN IS GOING TO GET THE SAME ANSWER OH ID LIKE TO SWEAR IM LIVID THERE HAS TO BE ANOTHER WAY OF GETTING WHICH IS OURS ANY IDEA ANYONE PLEASE NO MORE GROUPS TIME IS GETTING ON THANKS
Hi Kathleen
Hope your are well, of course you may contact me. I shall look forward to speaking with you soon,
Kind regards,
Anne
07860468198
paddy just receivd this every one that sent an email to mr cowen look at this I REFER TO YOUR RECENT EMAIL CONCERNING THE ISSUES YOU RAISE DUE TO INDUSTRIAL ACTION ON THE PART OF SOME STAFF IN THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND SKILLS CAN NOT BE REPLIED TO DIRECTLY COULD YOU PROVIDE ADDRESS AND WILL PROCESS YOUR QUERY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE YOURS T B CORRESPONDENCE so what does that tell you were waisting our time thanks
Since these groups are supposed to be legal charities, well what acts of charity do they perform , from the outside its very hard to understand , but if anyone knows , well at least tell us about it ,
We don’ want charity… We were viciously deprived of our childhood by The State and Religous Congretationst into whose care (prisons) they put us. We want and deserve proper compensation and justice for that.
Oops. congregations. I did not type that word in my last post. lol.
Are we NOT of the same NATION who fought for 600 years for our freedom from repression WELL then surley we TOGETHER can fight a bunch of CON artists and Dreadful people who know the Law in Ireland was Broken when they condemed Irish defenceless children to Brutal Child Prisons . The Catholic Church, The so called Irish Government were all in on it Together ,The Guarda In Ireland Followed and helped them like sheep.They are the Guilty One’s. >What sort of Country Drags crying Babies and young children into the CRIMINAL COURT to sentence the children into Reformatories Child Prisons.????? To be brutially battered ,Starved , Tortured, and made to work as Slaves for the benifit of the Catholic Church’. Stick Together.
hi ann i think you gave me the wrong number it says the number is not in survice thanks kathleen the number you gave 08760468198
I would like to add that for me, I want ALL the abuse to stop, wherever and however it occurs.
I mean STOP!
As a child I wanted to say “STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING, YOU ARE HURTING ME!” but never could, and with the intensity of the abuse, that thought vanished as I became adapted to abuse as ‘normal’.
Thus many people accept war as ‘normal’, adverse power as ‘normal’, hierarchy as ‘normal’ and act to protect these false ideas; that’s the reason behind the State and Churches self defence. They accept these things as ‘normal’ – that’s why they have Armies, ‘Defence Budgets’ and so on.
What I see is this : that the health of any given society is based upon how children are treated, because that’s what will determine the behaviour of the adult the child becomes. Treat the child with empathy, and you end up with an empathetic human being. Treat the child as someone who needs to be controlled and he or she will grow up as a controlling person. Abuse the child and he or she will suffer, and many (not all) will grow up to become abusers in their turn, unless they notice and start to undo the damage.
Empathetic adults do not abuse others.
Here is my song for all the children :
Stop What You Are Doing, You Are Hurting Me!
http://www.reverbnation.com/artist/song_details/4242502?play_now=true
Here’s a profoundly important essay on what is called ‘poisonous pedagagy’ : looking at what are called ‘child rearing’ practices that emerge from Establishment Society, and it goes some way to explaining the dynamics of denial and cover-up the Irish Government, and others are engaged in.
http://education.gsu.edu/csal/icwl/abs01/ihelfield1.htm
Corneilius !
These songs of yours are fabulous, and you ARE very clever with your words. I offered them as a Tribute to Alice Miller!(Facebook)
THANK YOU
Raymond
ON THE POISONOUS PEDAGOGY.
It is essential to draw attention to the fact that Alice Miller wrote FOR YOUR OWN GOOD a full 30 years ago. So this knowledge has been in the public domain for a very long time, which makes SOCIETY’S DENIAL and REJECTION of these Principles all the more shocking, especially as EVIDENCE IS PILING UP on our heads on a DAILY basis, on top of the VICTIMS’ CRIES which grow ever LOUDER.
It is particularly TRAGIC (actually bordering on the criminal/ly insane), that the PSYCHO-CARE PROFESSIONS have been just as FROZEN in applying these Principles. I feel very sorry for the very large family of Victims who are still STRUGGLING with their LIVES, STRANGLED by CRIMES and ISSUES of which they have always been TOTALLY INNOCENT.
Alice Miller went on to write another dozen books and provided a website which carries all her information, as well as the most precious READERS LETTERS Link where you can find personal stories that will touch your hearts.
I can only say here: “TRUST ME and BELIEVE ME” (if you can); that stuff is not secret nor clever, and it’s FREE, READY and AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW. You can find a VOICE, A WITNESS and maybe a WAY OUT of the darkness in the words that you’ll find there.
The website is
http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php
And the book FOR YOUR OWN GOOD is also available to read online for free at
http://www.nospank.net/
Respectfully and ON YOUR SIDE
Raymond
Dear Corneilius,
Thankyou for your knowledge and information. Wow. This truly say’s it all.
Granny what you said is absolutely spot on !
Also Rose, when you said we were ” VICIOUSLY DEPRIVED ” You also couldn’t have put that any better…
The Taoiseach/Cori.. are very aware of what is happening and it would be wise at this time to make sure all survivors of Child Abuse are paid immediately as they have stated so in the past on many recorded occassions.
Unfortunately for many survivor’s
It has, and maybe too late as alot have passed away or in bad health and so are unable to enjoy any kind of happiness, or feel justice has been done in some way.
I shall be intouch again shortly.
Take good care everyone,
Regards, Anne
P.s! Hi Kathleen 07860468198 I’m sure I gave the right number..but please call anytime Kathleen, be lovely to hear from you..
Anne
The idea of convincing all survivors, or trying to that we had to protect some secrecy about our files caused a lot of confusion ,it separated many of us from each other , secrets don’t exist when people share memories. we all share memories of each other s time in the institutions. it should bring us together . and not cause fear .
hi ann still no luck with that number 07860468198 by any chance do you live in england if so ive sorted out whats wrong thanks
Hi kathleen,
I’m sorry your having difficulty, but that number should be fine..yes we’r here in sunny old England! lol..
Be great to hear from you Kathleen,
Best regards..
Anne.