12 survivors of institutions get names cleared
By Conor Ryan, Political Correspondent
Monday, August 02, 2010
Justice Minister Dermot Ahern has issued 12 certificates to former residents of the institutions who had carried criminal records because of the state’s treatment of them.
This was because the 1908 law, which established borstals and juvenile homes, used the courts to take children into care.
The figure was revealed in the Children’s Minister Barry Andrew’s first report on the implementation plan for the 99 recommendations arising from the Ryan report. The progress report approved by the Cabinet last month showed the most recent certificate of innocence was finalised on May 25.
It said the 12 people had written to the minister requesting such certs and that the courts had agreed to deal with their applications as a priority.
The progress report also revealed the pace at which former residents are seeking the truth about their own care has not let up in the year since the publication of the Ryan report.
In 2009 the Department of Education received 478 Freedom of Information applications from former residents to have their personal records released. Already this year 319 similar requests have been made.
However, the report also identified a number of areas where the Government’s plans to implement the recommendations have stalled.
Many of these relate to the responsibilities of the Health Service Executive.
The HSE had been expected to carry out a full national review of its policy of putting homeless children directly into accommodation without being referred to the health authorities.
However, this audit will not take place until the autumn.
The HSE was also to carry out an audit of all resources, finance and staff in the childcare area across all the various agencies involved in the sector.
This was not achieved for the target of February 2010.
The progress report said there was a lack of “consistency, co-ordination and inter-agency focus” in the area of professional training for people working with children. But this was being addressed by the HSE, it said.
It revealed Mr Andrews is considering expanding the powers of the Health Information and Quality Authority to give it a wider remit over child protection. This change of policy was offered up as the reason HIQA’s social services inspectors had not begun independent inspections of all residential centres and foster services.
Child welfare groups have criticised the pace of progress on the implementation plan and in May joined together to pressure the Government to act.
Meanwhile, Andrew Madden, who was abused as a child in his Dublin parish, is considering running for the Dáil and said he is open to discussions with any party except Fianna Fáil.
This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Monday, August 02, 2010
cas, Good Luck keep at it and you will find what you are looking for, Fight for your Dad he would have suffered so much.
the difference with the borstal in clonmel and ferryhouse was that most of the children in ferryhouse were not guilty of any crime. there was no stigma if you were in the borstal as it was classed as a prison, on the other hand if you were in a industrial or reformatory, the stigma would stay with you forever. in saying that I don’t mean that the borstal was better, far from it I heard many horror storeys about the borstal I know some people that were in there, I don’t think many people from clonmel were prison officers there. I only know of one, to get information contact the national newspapers archive they will have many stories about the clonmel borstal.I believe it was a prison before it became a borstal. known as CLONMEL GOAL
thank you william – you are right. my father described prison officers or screws as the boys called them.did you ever meet anyone who was incarcerated there who might be able to verify the names of warders or teachers?
I know that the borstal in clonmel was not run by the rosminians my grandparents house was next to the borstal,there back garden wall was the borstal wall.The borstal was run by prison officers,when it closed down they were transferred to St Patrick institution in Dublin
i have had to do many hours of research for my own father who was abused in clonmel borstal. i know that only one borstal existed in ireland. however it is not included on any LIST. it was established in 1906 by protestant richard bagwell and closed in 1954 when all the boys still resident there were sent to st patricks institution in dublin.it had been established to follow the english system started at borstal in kent. there was a borstal for women in the north. people need to know that these religious institutions were not borstal,borstal in ireland was not ferryhouse which was a reformatory run by rosminians(i believe.clonmel borstal was run by the department of justice, and abuse at the hands of staff in their institution is not viewed as being under the same umbrella as those run by the religious orders. the question is why not?
Hi Seanie & cathleen-and anyone else who may be interested!
There is a group (more of a protest) on facebook right now..with other survivors who have joined.
The Group is called-protest the Irish Government plans to keep survivors monies!!!
If you just log in or if you can create an account you just type that into the search tab and the Group will appear…it’s a little bit of hope!
Take care all..
Anne.
07895479387
when the government said publicly they were responsible just as the church then they were each 100% responsible
can two criminals who do the very same crime in ireland, found to be 100% responsible each then turn around to the state and say we are only going to do 50% each of the sentence that makes it 100% right/fair?
there may be no money but we can protest at every poll station
Hi friends it is time to realise that the government in ireland have no interest in past child abuse,or you the victims.There is no money in it, or no votes, so why should they bother, and the money payed to the victims through the redress board is out of your sons and daughters wage packets. look for justice. And let the pope pay he and his church done very well out of starving children,and child labour,my advice dont vote for a trust fund, in saying that i dont think you will have much say in it.
come election time we must hand out cards to the irish people saying
FINNA FAIL ACTUALLY BELIEVES
THOUGH YOU MAY BE GUILTY OF A CRIME TO THE PUBLIC YOU ARE ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT CRIME 50%
THE VICTIM HAS TO PAY THE OTHER 50%
as paddy said there is only but a few writing on their views here.
thousands went to redress thousands claimed it does not make sense.
yet this man paddy doyle has given so much for so nothing, far more than any so called groupies who did nothing for so much.
there are some people out there who never claimed a penny for their efforts to support the survivor/witnesses though.
PLEASE HOW CAN IT BE POSSIBLE TO BE ONLY 50% GUILTY?
HOW?
IT IS TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE ESPECIALLY WHEN ALL PARTIES AGREED THEIR GUILT IN THE DAIL IN PUBLIC ON TV.
WE MAY BE IGNORANT IN MANY WAYS TO THEIR CAUSE BUT ANY FOOL WOULD KNOW THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE.
PLEASE FINNA FAIL RETURN THE 50% TO THE SURVIVORS YOU ARE 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR.
NOW THEN THERE IS MORE.
WHERE ARE THE RULES TO PROTECT SURVIVOR’S AND THEIR REDRESS AS EXAMPLE:-
HOW PROTECTED IS THE MONEY SURVIVORS TRUSTED THE BANKS WITH.
WHERE IS THE BILL TO SAY WELFARE ARE TO IGNORE THE REDRESS AT ALL COSTS.
WHAT ARE SURVIVORS ENTITLED TO IN WELFARE.
WHAT SUPPORT HAS THE GOVERNMENT GIVEN PERSONALLY TO SURVIVORS
IF YOU THE GOVERNMENT WANT TO CONTACT OTHER SURVIVORS WHO ARE NOT SO CALLED MEMBERS OF GROUPS ABOUT THIS STATUARY FUND
THEN WHERE ARE ALL THE MEETING DOCUMENTS OF WHAT WAS AGREED BETWEEN GOVERNMENT AND SO CALLED SURVIVOR GROUPS? WHO CLAIMED TO REPRESENT SURVIVORS.
SURLEY NON MEMBERS HAD A RIGHT TO EXPRESS THEIR VIEWS ALSO.
BEFORE ANYTHING WAS AGREED BETWEEN GOVERNMENT AND THESE SO CALLED GROUPS.
I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTUALLY IGNORING THE TRUE NEEDS OF SURVIVORS HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
WHERE ARE THE DOCUMENTS OF PROOF ON WHO SET- UP THESE GROUPS IN THE FIRST PLACE
EXAMPLE WHO GAVE THEM THE RIGHT AND WHY?
WHERE IS THE PROOF ON WHO WAS TO LEAD THESE GROUPS where are the election ballot papers to say who is the committee and leader?
WHY HAS THIS GOVERNMENT LEFT IT SO LATE TO ASK FOR NON MEMBER’S VIEWS NOW,
AND NEVER BEFORE THROUGH OUT THE WHOLE ISSUE OF INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL ABUSE?
WHY HAVE YOU IGNORED US NON- MEMBERS UP TO DATE?
WHERE ARE THE RULES AND FUNDS THAT WERE SET UP
FOR
THE EDUCATION BOARD AT THE TIME OF REDRESS?
THE COUNSELING FUNDS AT THE TIME OF REDRESS
THE FAMILY TRACING AT THE TIME OF REDRESS
AND HOW LONG WERE THEY AGREED ON?
SO WHY HAVE YOU PUT ALL THESE ON THE SURVIVORS BILL TITLED ” ((THE STATUARY FUND)) ”
YOU MEAN TO SAY FINNA FAIL YOU WANT US TO PAY FOR WHAT YOU DID TO US ALL?
I AM SURE THE WITNESSES OF THE CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST US WILL HAVE MORE QUESTIONS TO ASK HERE
AND FOR HOW LONG IT TAKES TO SEEK THE TRUTH.
WE HAVE NO HEALING IN LIES AND DECIET ONLY IN TRUTH, AND HONESTY.
NON MEMBERS ARE OUT HERE ALL ALONE UNPROTECTED NOT KNOWING OR UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING
REGARDING THEIR RIGHTS AS SURVIVORS OF ABUSE HERE IN IRELAND OR IS THERE NO SUCH THING?
superbly put robert 100 per cet the truth
paddy was right it is and always be very hard to get people to join or turn up for action on this useless fund.
paddy was fair to put this column up as it is a bit of good news for those who have had their names cleared. rightly so.
well done paddy.
if the survivors or (witnesses) as i call us were all guaranteed money then we would have thousands at the door.
the question here is where are they now?
these people above are a great example of unity, they fought the fight for what they believed in and were successful.
i bow down in honor before them, only a dozen that is what it took.
the only group that worked for me was binardos the family tracing.
they have done more for me than any so called survivor group has done.
they were faithful to the cause to help me find my family. as well as supporting me through very difficult times.
this to me was also good news.
yet they were in my book the least paid for such a good service.
we were forced into the schools now we are to be forced to accept the price this government claim to be fair and justified
well are you people out there to be forced to accept this bulling tactic once again?
the money in this so called fund is not enough as it is to fund the paper to wipe away the the bullshit we have encountered so far from this government.
if they pay every survivor in cash you would then see the truth about this fund
it is not enough to pay for the services they claim to represent.
if you receive it in cash you will be even less happy
as it will show you exactly what you have been given for your whole childhood.
HIS FIFTY / FIFTY IS CRAP
THE RELIGIOUS PAID US THAT MONEY FOR THEIR 100% GUILT
THE GOVERNMENT WERE ALSO 100% GUILTY
WE WERE GIVEN THAT MONEY FOR THE 100% GUILT OF THE CHURCH IT WAS AND IS OUR MONEY.
WE DID NOT FORCE THIS GOVERNMENT TO DO REDRESS, EDUCATIONAL COUNCELLING, LAWYERS FAMILY TRACING REPORTS AND THE SO.
THEY DECIDED TO DO IT THIS WAS THEIR BILL THEIR 100% GUILTY PART.
THIS WAS AGREED BY THE GROUPS WITHOUT ANY MANDATE, HOW BECAUSE WE DID NOT KNOW WHAT A MANDATE WAS AT THE TIME.
WE THE SURVIVORS HAVE BEEN ROBBED OF OUR CHILDHOOD NOW TOTALLY ROBBED OF ANY KIND OF LIFE WE COULD HAVE HAD.
THE FUND IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE WHAT IS THE ISSUE IS THAT WE THE SURVIVORS HAVE BEEN CHEATED AND ROBBED ONCE AGAIN.
HOW CAN ANY DECENT PERSON VOTE FOR A PARTY SUCH AS FINNA FAIL WHO DESTROYED THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT LIVES A SHEER DISASTER.
OH YES SO THE TAX PAYER HAVE TO FIT THE BILL TO BAIL OUT THE BANKS
THE SAME TAX PAYER WHO THE GOVERNMENT USED TO TAKE OUR MONEY AWAY FROM US.
OH IT WAS NOT US THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT WAS THE TAX PAYERS WHO TOOK YOUR MONEY.
SHAME ON THIS GOVERNMENT SHAME TO THE NAME OF FINNA FAIL
no prob paddy since emailing ive found out what i needed , regards .
No, it didn’t arrive here. Paddy.
paddy did you get my email ? sent it 5 days or so bk ? i clicked contact on this page and sent it
The organisation of such an event could not be undertaken by one person – myself. Looking through the comments on this website, all of which are of course welcome, they do come from more or less the same ten or twelve people. To organise a protest march we need many more people on the streets than just a dozen. We also need a good organisational structure behind the protest march otherwise it will just go the way of a not so recent march where “thousands” were expected and a mere “handful” turned up. Paddy.
im sure people would turn up now Paddy. but it would have to be before the 27th august.
Good morning Paddy and all,
I have asked for further info this morning, hopefully a name and dates of travel to Ireland. I do not know what other info would be required, any other info let me know. Hopefully I hear back soon.
Has anyone seen an advert in any of the newspapers supposedly put out by Mr. Peter O’Brien of the redress unit ? regarding a public consultation.
Best regards.
Seanie.
Seanie, can you email me further information on this escapade. I will try and follow it up and take it from there. Paddy.
The best of luck with the book launch, I will do my best to attend. Paddy.
Others have tried this kind of thing and it just didn’t take off at all. The numbers simply didn’t turn up. Paddy.
paddy i wonder if you call for a protest id say a lot of people would turn up what do you think
hi paddy..i just want to invite all who would like to come form this site to the launch of my life story…THE JAGGED HALO.the launch dates are..skeirries mill 13th of Aug at 5pm..14th of Aug in community centre rush at 2pm.then the 15th of Aug in the bracken court hotel balbriggan co dublin at 2pm..andrew madden .micheal o brian and don baker are all attending the bracken court launch…your all very welcome….i cant wait…there was a interview in this weeks fingal independent about book…let me no if your coming…0863363992…godbless
Paddy, Get a load of this, and this is very true, this is what the fund will be used for and my source called the gentleman out, her sons father in law. “Seanie, my sons father in law got a call to go over to Ireland from England to join a few people to elect a new committee for the Right of Place in Cork, he went over to Cork on Thursday and back to England on the Saturday. He was put up in the Gresham Hotel, the cost nearly 500 pounds, can you believe it, SCANDALOUS!!!! I told him so”.Paddy, Someone has to get the attention of the media over there in Ireland and expose this disgraceful rape of the survivors compensation.
Seanie.
WE NEED PEOPLE LIKE HIM AND PADDY DOYLE AND MANY OTHER SURVIVORS/WITNESSES IN POWER TO PROTECT CHILDREN FROM THE DECIET OF FILTHY POLITICS HERE IN IRELAND.
CHILDREN ARE NOT CRIMINALS THEY WERE, THEY ARE AND ALWAYS WILL BE CHILDREN
THE ONLY CRIMINALS ARE THE ONES WHO WERE, ARE, AND ALWAYS WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR CHILDREN.
Meanwhile, Andrew Madden, who was abused as a child in his Dublin parish, is considering running for the Dáil and said he is open to discussions with any party except Fianna Fáil.
well done and the very best of luck to andrew
Once you have made your request, and paid any appropriate fee, you must be given the information within 40 days (most organisations manage to reply much sooner).
I waited 2 years for mine and had to go to the Commissioner- who then took over and it was sorted.
Paddy, these people need DATA PROTECTION REQUESTS to get ALL files on themselves. FOI is not the same, yet many believe it is.
http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Accessing_Your_Personal_Information/14.htm
Dear …
I wish to make an access request under the Data Protection Acts 1988 and 2003 for a copy of any information you keep about me, on computer or in manual form. I am making this request under section 4 of the Data Protection Acts.
Any problems and the Data Commissioner will sort it all out. I can vouch for this myself.