The weakening of faith has also been a “significant contributing factor” in the sexual abuse of minors, the pope said, adding that “current painful situation will not be resolved quickly.”
The pope’s comments came in a written Vatican statement at the end of the meeting, the largest one yet about the scandal that has rocked the church from Ireland to the Vatican and beyond.
A damning report by an independent Irish commission in November found the Catholic Church in Ireland had covered up the “widespread” abuse of children from 1975 to 2004.
It led to the resignation of four Irish bishops late last year and prompted the pope to say at the time he was “deeply disturbed and distressed” by the report’s findings.
A group representing alleged victims of abuse said the pope had not gone far enough.
Victims are “angered his Holiness did not see fit to take the necessary firm action against those in the Irish Church hierarchy who protected paedophiles,” said John Kelly, the founder of Irish Survivors of Child Abuse.
The pope “has clearly failed the victims and the Irish people,” he added.
Asking the bishops to address the problem “shows lack of vision, especially as it is the Irish bishops who are themselves the problem,” Kelly said in the written statement.
There was no discussion at this week’s meeting about further resignations, said papal spokesman Father Federico Lombardi.
Those at the meeting “recognized that this grave crisis has led to a breakdown in trust in the church’s leadership and has damaged (the church’s) witness to the gospel and its moral teaching,” the Vatican statement said.
“The bishops spoke frankly of the sense of pain and anger, betrayal, scandal and shame expressed to them on numerous occasions by those who had been abused,” it said.
It said “significant measures have now been taken” to ensure the safety of children in the church.
“For his part, the Holy Father observed that the sexual abuse of children and young people is not only a heinous crime, but also a grave sin which offends God and wounds the dignity of the human person created in his image,” the statement said.
The pope challenged the bishops to address past problems with “determination and resolve” and to face the current crisis with “honesty and courage.”
“The Holy Father also pointed to the more general crisis of faith affecting the church and he linked that to the lack of respect for the human person, and how the weakening of faith has been a significant contributing factor in the phenomenon of the sexual abuse of minors,” the statement said.
“He stressed the need for a deeper theological reflection on the whole issue, and called for an improved human, spiritual, academic and pastoral preparation both of candidates for the priesthood and religious life and of those already ordained and professed.”
The pope wrote a pastoral letter to Irish Catholics to be issued during Lent, the 40-day period between Ash Wednesday, which happens tomorrow, and Easter, the Vatican said.
“The Holy Father has asked that this Lent be set aside as a time for imploring an outpouring of God’s mercy and the holy spirit’s gifts of holiness and strength upon the church in Ireland,” the statement said.
At a Mass in Rome on Monday before meeting the pope, the Irish Catholic bishops prayed for the victims of the abuse in Ireland, said their spokesman, Martin Long.
One of the bishops said Sunday that the church in Ireland had been badly damaged by the revelations of abuse and cover-up.
“I would admit quite frankly what everybody else knows, shouted from house tops, that the church has been seriously wounded,” Bishop Joseph Duffy said in Rome.
“This has done an immense damage to the authority of the church as the mouthpiece of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Of that there is no doubt,” he said.
The pope already met in December with senior Irish bishops about the report, produced by the Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation. The Irish government created the commission in 2006 to examine abuse allegations.
I’ll work on it Paddy. The budget will be limited so I think paper mache will have to do instead of bronze….
What a brilliant idea Frank. Let’s organise it somehow or another.
I think there should be a statute of Henry VIII put up outside the gates of Maynooth.
Hi Paddy
“I will of course consider any responsibilities that I am asked to undertake”.
Exactly the answer I would have expected, I am sure I speak for all when I say when you do come to your decision, whatever that may be you will have 100% support and respect.
PS What say you now Barry?
PPS On a humourous note when, where and who do I send my 200 euros too?
Christy
Rob, the process of disbanding these orders is a parallel process. Their assets freezed and all economic transactions blocked and since the Vatican will not disband them then it has to be the State that carry’s out that work. After the Farce in the Vatican and the snub by its ambassador to the minister of foreign affairs then this should be the next step. But then again this is Ireland not Europe. It must also be remembered that the Irish Christian Brothers have sent a legal bill of 40 million euro to the state as thanks for their “cooperation” with Justice Ryan. History will provide ample opportunities to “blame”, what is of real value is that these orders are brought to book in a court of law, their assets seized and their passage to the clerical rubbish tip along side the remainder of orders investigated for atrocities in that report.
Hi Paddy,
If I was a member of this morally corrupt government and was asked by Cowan to go to another country (junket) for St Patrick’s Day to promote Ireland I would be very wary of which country I chose. Certainly you could not take the high ground with countries like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA and Britain or any European State considering the four horrific reports Ferns, Ryan, McCoy and Murphy. Come to think of it you may have got a reasonable reception in apartheid South Africa or Hitler’s Germany.
Christy
Why has the Irish Government been allowed to give tens of millions of taxpayers money to special interest groups such as the so called surviours groups?
When you consider the level of criticism coming from survivors alone, it beggars belief that this continues to happen.
With regards to survivors groups is there a hidden agenda? Do they have a higher authority watching over them?
Paddy,
Of course there was a meeting.
The Pope needed to show his foot-soldiers how to rule and save the catholic empire. Victims are no more than collateral damage. The rest was PR.
Sieglinde
24 March is the day to watch! We’ve let the cops know we’re coming, we’ve written to the Dail and some members so far, we’ve been keeping the media informed, we’ve networked globally and the fight continues.
Here in Kilkenny whilst on John Street yesterday there was a huge banner draped from one side of the street to the other advertising the fact there was to be a week long novena or some such nonsense, and when I saw another advert. on one of the back roads for the same novena, I couldn’t help that little smirk of satisfaction. They’re having to work to herd the sheeple into the pens. How the mighty have fallen!
To Charles O Rourke…..Disbanding these orders,would, in itself, be counter-productive…meaning….there’d be NO ONE to blame, take the blame….and they’d be ‘let of the hook….even quicker; an association of indivuduals means exactly what it says….that the ‘provinsials’ of the ‘orders’ are ‘answerable’ (they may not have personally committed abuse) but, they are answerable (By law) for the deeds done by their (servants/agents); disband them, yes, after they have dealt with ‘their victims’ properly; I believe Mr M O’Brien, should, if asked, refuse to attend any meeting with the Gezibel, in Rome; Snubs are far more ‘outstanding’ than actually recieving;
WE AS SURVIVORS HAVE HAD NO PROFESSIONAL REPRESENTATION FOR TEN YEARS.
WHAT WE MUST NEVER FORGET IS THAT WE HAVE TAKEN ON THE IRISH STATE, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE IRISH POLITICAL SYSTEM.
THE SO CALLED LEADERS OF SURVIVORS GROUPS HAVE TURNED US ALL INTO VICTIMS.
WE HAVE HAD ALL THE FINE WORDS FROM COWAN, AHERN AND McALEESE WE NOW NEED TO BOMBARD THE ABOVE WITH THE HARSH LEGAL REALITIES OF THE FERNS REPORT, THE RYAN REPORT AND THE MURPHY REPORT.
IF WE WANT TO LEAVE A LEGACY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS WE NEED TO ACT NOW OTHERWISE THEY WILL BURY US WITH A CLOAK OF PUBLIC REALATIONS AND DAMAGE LIMITATIONS.
CHRISTY
RIGHT ON ANGRY,YES WE NEED TO BE LEGALLY REPRESENTED AND TO DO SO WE NEED TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP AND AS SUCH I WILL MATCH YOUR 200 EUROS TO THE DOYLE FIGHTING FUND FOR SURVIVORS.
THE RELIGIOUS ORDERS HAVE ALLEGEDLY PUT A BILL INTO THE STATE FOR 40 MILLION EUROS TO PAY FOR THEIR LEGAL COSTS FOR FIGHTING US BUT I HAD TO PAY 14,200 EUROS TO BE LEGALLY REPRESENTED AT THE REDRESS BOARD WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE NON-CONFRONTATIONAL AND NON-ADVERSARIAL.
YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE A SAVANT TO SEE THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT.
CHRISTY
I don’t think any meeting took place at all, it’s just a figment of our imagination embedded in our subconscious!
THE FARCE IN THE VATICAN
It was an exercise in public relations and damage limitations. I have no doubt that there were more lawyers and spin doctors than holy men at the meeting with the Pope.
STFU and kiss my ring! The Show MUST go on!!! And it will, as long as the Irish people let it – and we do, as a society!
NB. I’m happy to report whilst I’m Irish myself I am not part of Irish society.
Qeustion for M Maguire above(above):
If you are so anti Rome (as any normal person would be) what is your daughter doing having her child baptised? Seems to me, you have quite a bit of work to do on your psyche in order to rid it of the Catholicism that you were forced-fed as a child.
I’ll be there on 24th March (as Charles O’Rourke, above, rightly says) in an angry and dignified manner.
Well at least the mask is thrown and we now see the true cold face of evil. Polished evil but evil none the less. Oddly enough the winners of this farce are the orders who ran the children’s Gulags. They seem to be below the radar. I can imagine the Irish Christian Brothers are feeling a sense of relief and gratitude that no mention was made of them in the Vatican. This one order was responsible for more abuse than the remaining 17 orders together. One word from Ratzinger would have put them out of business but evil knows evil and the Christian Brothers will never forget Ratzinger and neither will we.
I agree with with Mr o’ Rourke.
All survivors to attend the march on the 24th and with quiet dignity, remember those who have left us .they too deserve that from us survivors. NEVER TO BE FORGOTTEN .
Paddy, you are right. I couldn’t believe how many of the establishment were either papal knights when I started arguing with the church apologists on various forums and so on … I admit straight away to you that I have always felt that the church in Ireland did more damage than the British Army ever did and for twice as long. The British could only shoot you but they couldn’t torture someone for the rest of their lives.
So yes I do have a bee in my bonnet even though I not a survivor nor mercifully had to spend any time in a dark place like Letterfrack or any of those institutions.
Now that that is out of the way I have to say that seeing the whole abuse mess get dragged inch by bloody inch out into the open has turned my original negative views on the church into absolute hatred.
It just shows the damage- if Coca-Cola or another Multi-national corporation and its officers in Ireland had done what the church has done in Ireland there would be lynch mobs hunting them down.
The real nationwide damage beyond that suffered by survivors is the blank space where there should be real anger from everybody about the activities of this despicable organisation.
They’ve made some bad enemies, Paddy, has the church in Ireland and elsewhere. I want to see it destroyed. Its right that it should have its assets seized and redress payments made immediately.
I never want to see or hear of some priest insinuating that they ‘sit down’ with survivors because I know what that is- an attempt to intimidate.
Keep going Paddy (and everyone else here).
May i add…(hopefully it wont be lifted)….that the POPE could easily have ‘phoned’ the (we’re bound for Rome )header balls….(how much the trip cost for all this- must surely equate to the level (if not more) to what is awarded at the RIRB!…….perhaps the RIRB paid the travel expenses….the ‘show down’ looks as though it’s gathering momentum;
By facing down I mean confiscating the assets of those orders named in the Ryan Report. Bringing those members mentioned in that report to court. Disbanding these orders, all of them. Removing them from schools and hospitals. Declare a second republic to be secular.
And so it has come to this that the Roman church is viewed as a dangerous place to go with children, to the degree that it has to be watched and monitored. Two investigations have proven it to be unsafe for families and even worse it runs schools and hospitals where it has unlimited access to children. What makes it even more dangerous is that within that country where it operates the government is unwilling to face down this organisation, further exposing the children of that country to intensified danger. Proven to be criminal in actions and intent by the work of two judges it openly flaunts its arrogance by refusing to reply to requests for information not once but twice. Ladies and gentemen may I make a modest proposal?.Ireland a member of the EU can not safeguard its children by way of omission in exercising and asserting its hegomoni over that organisation called the Roman Catholic Church declares itself a failed state. Of course seeking political asylum on the European mainland is a real possibility on the basis of Ireland is a threat to children. People in my jurisdiction have received asylum for less.
To Angry Re: your posts on 17th
“On that basis I would be more that happy and willing to donate 200 Euro`s to any such committe being formed on a just and legal basis + …. in my opinion, Paddy Doyle, if he was willing, should be the figure of such a committe around which events should unfold.”
Well spoken Angry.
Count Me In.
Raymond
The very least that can be said about the farce at the Vatican is that it has dispersed any clouded thinking that may remain within survivor groups and perhaps open the possibility of consensus. By consensus I mean laying aside for the moment differences and focusing on the March 24th demonstration in Dublin. This is the one action that will change the whole abuse landscape and achieve measurable results. Indignation as to the result of the Vatican meeting however understandable will achieve nothing, a massive demonstration at the heart of the question will. I have said it before that real change can only be brought about by the survivors themselves. The indignation by the government as to the snub by the Vatican embassy in Dublin when requested to appear before it,s foreign minister will remain at that, indignation and nothing more. The farce we have seen at play in the Vatican State should be matched by a dignified demonstration by all survivors on that day. Yes it is possible to be both angry and dignified at the same time. March the 24th then.
Tony, for as long as I can remember, I’ve been calling for the seizing of all church assets just as the assets of other criminals are seized. The Government haven’t got the balls to instigate such a more. In stead of wearing the harp on their sleeve, most of them it appears, wear the crucifix or a rosary beads! What chance have we got? Two chance. Some chance and NO CHANCE AT ALL.
Just a thought, 1500 newspapers worldwide have given widespread column inches to the meeting of Irish Bishops and The Pope.
So Mr Cowan, (Further substantial redress) when are you going to call the religious in for a cosy little fireside chat about the legal aspects of the Ryan report?
Christy
hi paddy i did say i would never write again but i feel i have to
noel c barry told me that the religious orders have paid enough and that survivors are to get nothing else.
how dare these dark knights of the round table orders say they have met with survivors, i have not met anyone as of yet, not one person has come to me and said sorry, they say they are talking to survivors WHO, WHERE AND WHEN.
I AM SICK OF THESE LYING CONNIVING, MANIPULATING, PARASITES THAT COME FROM THE DARK AGES CALLING THEMSELVES MEN AND WOMEN OF GOD.
and i am also tired of a certain so called support group claiming they are acting on our behalf we deserve much much better.
THIS GOVERNMENT IS KEEPING FAR TOO QUIET, THEY ARE THE SERVANTS OF THIS SAME ROUND TABLE.
SO WHEN THEY MENTION FUNDS AND SO ON ARE WE TO BE TIED TO THE CHAIR AND FORCED FED THIS CRAP.
SORRY PADDY WE NEED RESULTS ONCE AND FOR ALL. EVERY SINGLE SURVIVOR DESERVES INDIVIDUAL SUPPORT AND NO MORE BULL. that bull has spread diarrhoea it stinks
REGARDS ROBERT.
This is a rotten apple they are doing their best in trying to cut away the rot, they are so arrogant they cannot see this apple is rotten to the core.
Raymond is right. The Vatican is still treating the whole issue as a PR problem and using the attention in the media as an attempt to further its own theological agenda. The attempt to blame a reduction in faith does not wash and is an attempt to deflect blame away from the corporate church. Its a psychological attempt at slicing and dicing the abuse away from the church and towards ‘miscreants’.
It does not answer the charge that the corporate church attempted from the top down top down to suppress proper investigation and bully survivors into silence.
Looking at the Der Spiegel reporting of the emerging abuses in Germany it is noticeable that many of the complaints refer to a period post 1995 when the catholic church claimed it had put procedures in place to detect such abuses and deal with them.
In one way I want that organisation immolated and destroyed for what it has done to thousands of Irish citizens. In another sense I see it committing slow suicide because of the delusion at the top that they are dealing with a PR issue.
Its the death of a thousand cuts for that middle eastern cult- other issues to emerge will be abuse in a currently silent Africa and then the trafficking of children for profit out of China for a margin of £20,000 per child. They’ve been at it for years and have previous form in this area.
I’d prefer the Irish Govt to grow some bollocks, withdraw the diplomatic credentials of the papal nuncio and seize the church’s assets in Ireland to pay the survivors and pay for a monument right across from the Pro-Cathedral in Dublin but I suppose waiting for culchie politicians in Ireland to throw away a possible papal knighthood is too much.
But the death of a thousand cuts is certainly a possibility now for the catholic church at least in the developed world.
And good bloody riddance.
Well at least Paddy and Barry never seem to fail in giving us a little giggle now and then if nothing else!..it brightens up our day at least!..by the way Barry/Paddy you two should be running the country! Be a better place I tell you that!
We really did feel that just maybe The Holy Father would do what is human heart is honestly telling him to do..along with God..and all the Bibles he has studied for years! but no!..He just cannot, will not, find it in his being to do so. I honestly think he is a robot..maybe he is not real and his batterys run out once in a while!
I just can’t get my head around that. A 5 yr old child has more compassion and love than that!
What an insult to all survivors. I’m truly sorry for everyone of us.
See you at the March everyone!
Anne
It is all a stitch up, an exercise in propaganda where money talks.What weakening of the faith? All that has changed is that they got caught because brave souls like Paddy and Co revealed the truth.The guilt trips no longer worked.The fear of hell no longer worked because many awakened to the LIE.
deceptive Intelligence at its finest.
The history of the Catholic church like the history of all Patriarchal religions gave the men in frocks the belief that they were superior to the human beings and they could do as they pleased with us.
Their old sacred books declare it no sin to rape children.But is was a sin for the victim because he/she inticed the man/woman of god.
People of Eire need to learn who the god of the Vatican really is, for therein lies the answer.
I really thought that by now the people of Eire would have boycotted this foreign entity, but alas, the brainwashing is still working on the sheep.
People of Eire- the great people of Justice- admired all over the Universe- have become spineless over time.
I am no longer a citizen of Eire or a member of the catholic cult.
The only way to make a difference is to hit these men of god in the wallet, as money and power is their god.
Jaysus!!!!! Raymond, you encapsulated it perfectly; the only way the church will sit up and listen is if the people vote with their feet and stay away from the vile institution! Hence the reason that 24 March will be remembered long after we’re gone, as that is the day that ‘we’ fight back. You are either with us or you’re not. Get out there and be part of it! Tell your grandchildren how you took on the might of the church and won! United we stand!
The non-event in Rome over the past two days has left parents with a dilemma. WILL MY CHILD BE SAFE FROM PREDATORS if he or she goes to mass .?. Who can guarantee my childs safety, and more IMPORTANTLY who will be RESPONSIBLE for my childs safety, physically and morally within the environs of any church.?.
Remedy, until this hierarchy starts to recognise its failings in abandoning vulnerable children to its PREDATORS, don`t send your child to mass.
Hi:
Its obvious – say something; do nothing they’ll eventually go away.
At ground level, the Church is working away to set its position to regain its power and position through lots of small actions. It appears that it still “controls” many social aspects..entry to education in many cases… burials and other social necessities.
A small but bizarre aspect of this is when my daughter went to the local shop to get a dress for her daughter’s baptism …
the first question she was asked was where?
On disclosing the church name, the assistant
who obviously saw that my daughter could not believe what she had been told, produced a letter from the local parish priest setting out a specification for the dressing of babies for this ocassion:
One colour, pure white, allowed and other bits and bobs.
This is a return to the “control” mentality that gained an maintained the position of the Church for centuries in Ireland.
It may appear small, but its there, it has never gone away!
They can manage this level of minutae, but continue to fail to be able to manage the damage that they have and continue to cause to this same society.
The Church is, and has been for some considerable time acting in ways that are no different from terrorist organisations. While there is no international definition for this it is generally agreed that:
Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.
Common definitions of terrorism refer only to violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants.
As such, the Church should not be negotiated with. It appears to meet many if not all of the terms that created the proscribed organisations of recent history.
It should be treated as such. It is, has been and remains an organisation that works outside the law.
Its timeline for operation is not limited to our natural lifetime. It can wait for time to pass and memories to fade.
Any victim however cannot and indeed their legal rights are similarly restricted.
So time is on their side, not yours.
MM
Further to my posting of above I made an omission to the fact that in my opinion, Paddy Doyle, if he was willing, should be the figure of such a committe around which events should unfold. His International reputation meets all the desired criteria. Funding for such an enterprise also comes under the European Commission tasked with good causes. That also is an avenue which could be further explored.
The bishops and rome have had their turn, the abundance of tosh, drivel and trivia we have had to endure for the past two days highlights that fact. Load`s a hail marys and our fathers , “heinous crimes” and other well directed nonsense falling well short of its mark.
It now falls to the State to take action, and it should commence with the returning to Rome of Leanza, to join the other antiquated dogmatic fossils and cross dressers.
Following Leanza`s exit from Ireland, an immediate announcement by the State to every diocese being subjected to an investgation and nationwide audit to ascertain EXACTLY what these bishops are hiding in their curia`s.
I`m no lawyer, but its painfully apparent that in order to proceed in obtaining some sort of accountability from bishops, hierarchy and religious orders, we need legal representation at every level. Its also needed to engage and articulate in a manner which will compel the State to listen.
These four so called “”group leaders” who have been meeting and liasing with these bishops have achived nothing but irreparable harm to the continuing fight of survivors, we would have been better served by retarded amoebas.
Serious consideration should be given to Christys suggestion to a properly formed committe with teeth and a will to surpass the last ten years of misrepresentation by unqualified and ad-hoc appointed “group leaders” who have caused more havoc than achivement.
On that basis I would be more that happy and willing to donate 200 Euro`s to any such committe being formed on a just and legal basis.
If out of Fifteen Thousand survivors we can get a thousand , or even five hundred to inject a meaningful donation , its at least a start , maybe “milk teeth” to begin with, but Im sure they would soon morph into incisive cutting molars.
I’m very sorry folks, I’m sick. This farce played out at the Vatican is the most sickening possible outcome, following nine months of silence. It reminds me of the day Ryan was published, and “Only Press” was allowed; and the cameras of the World just accross the road! It was only HERE – with the scandals HERE in Ireland – that GUBU was ever going to be surpassed……….GROTESQUE, UNBELIEVABLE, BIZZARE and UNPRECEDENTED. And now it has! I cannot understand how some people would want to CONTINUE going to church; however, could they PLEASE DEMONSTRATE a modicum of outrage and disapproval at their “sheppards”; show a “sense of dis-taste” if DISGUST is just NOT an option…! And stay AWAY from the Mass, the Sacraments, Retreats and Adorations; and let their SILENCE and ABSENCE speak for them if Words are actually too difficult to formulate….For FUCK’S SAKE, Paddy my friend, what does it take???
On your side.
Raymond
“The Holy Father also pointed to the more general crisis of faith affecting the church and he linked that to the lack of respect for the human person, and how the weakening of faith has been a significant contributing factor in the phenomenon of the sexual abuse of minors,” the statement said – well, as I see it – it’s exactly the opposite – because all this sexual, physical, emotional and spiritul abuse occurred since the foundation of religious orders in Ireland – there was always a lack of respect towards our parents, and all of the abused. They had what he calls ‘a weakening of faith’ – it never existed… it’s all rubbish… they were into power and money and they still are.
“I would admit quite frankly what everybody else knows, shouted from house tops, that the church has been seriously wounded,” Bishop Joseph Duffy said in Rome.”
The Church was not wounded, the Catholic Church is a wound that this and every other society where they hold sway, has to suffer.
If he thinks his Church was wounded how would he describe what his Church did to it’s victims.
Now there’s something I didn’t know. Child abuse is a “heinous crime”. I’m indebted to the pope for bringing that to my attention. Bless is Prada shoes!!